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Pseudo Secularism and the Congress

April 8, 2009

Alert! Long post

This post had been lying as a draft since the last two weeks.
It started off as a post about Sajjan Kumar and Jagdish Tytler.

I wanted to raise the issue of Sajjan Kumar and Jagdish Tytler since most of the news channels were giving it a passing mention and nothing more.

The issue has come up again and how! Jarnailism has cropped up as a word by itself.

Then (which is just a few months and a few weeks back) the focus was on other rabid  hate speakers. Fine by me.

Just please, please do bash up everyone equally and not according to timelines.
It gives my heart sadistic pleasure in a most amazing manner. When I see all the B######### being bashed up/locked irrespective of whom they killed or which community or whom they hate , it gives my heart immense pleasure.

Sadly, I cant remember the last time this had happened in India.

You know like,  the incident happened in 1984? Hey! Not fair that was wayyy back! Who remembers anything now? I don’t ! Do you? Okay give him one slap and a Congress ticket.

The incident happened in 2009? Then slap the NSA and put him behind bars.

Brilliant ! Great going India’s secular liberal individuals!

The  damn farce  reminds me of this quote by Santayana

”Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it”

 
I live in New Delhi. Infact have spent a major part of my life here. I have seen how Sikhs live in sheltered colonies. Like they are animals in a herd who have to stay together incase the big wolf comes again to devour them .The houses. Almost ghetto like in their appearance. Rows and rows of flats all side by side jostling for space. And have any of you visited the place where the widows live? Please do.

And then tell me how this does not affect me directly but Gujarat affects me more directly. This affects me. Not any more or any less than Gujarat. But at the EXACT same level. Because I dont care when it happened or where it happened. Or who commmited these sins. I care because this happened in my country. My India. The India that I proudly proclaim to all and sundry to be secular and impartial.

Do you know how hypocritical that makes me feel?
Because I am witness to a party, a government that refuses to punish those who are guilty and infact hands them tickets for polls! Is Manmohan Singh able to look at himself in the mirror?

I used to be baffled when I was a kid. In the army, all I had seen were names that were as diverse as they could possibly be. There was a Kanjilal, an Acharyaalu, a Saud Shah, a Sandhu, a Singh, an Aiyyar and many more. We were simply Indians. But never had I seen so many people of the same community and religion staying together!

I remember asking mom and dad about this time and time again. They used to avoid answering the question. How would…..how could they tell a little child of the horror that forces humans to seek shelter in little groups that have something common? Of how identities of ‘us’ and ‘them’ surface when humans turn bestial ?
That horror when humans bay for each others blood?

I remember seeing the grandfathers of two friends . They were both Sikhs. The patkas were all in place. The bearing was as proud as ever if a little stooped sometimes. I also remember having seen the fathers of the two friends. The first ‘civilians I had come across out of army life. These men , the fathers of the two friends did not wear patkas (turbans) . I was baffled. As far as I knew they were supposed to wear one because their religion said so.

So I asked them about it.

And all I got was a painful silence. A stark reminder my question was to them, of all that they had seen. Of all that they had suffered. Of how the difference between wearing a patka and not wearing one was the difference between life and death.

Of how long hair could mean death . And how short hair could and did save lives.

This is India. And this is Congress.

 

Congress is pseudo secular.Apparently a lot of people have strong objection to this word.

Let me explain the meaning of the term first though I am sure most of you know it and then you can decide whether it is as bad a word as some make it out to be.

The term ‘pseudo-secularism’. It is the state of implicit non-secular trends in the face of pledged secularism. The term is used by groups who perceive a double standard exhibited within the established secular governing policy towards culturally different groups.  ( Did the word reservation just pop into your heads? )

The word “secular” was inserted into the Preamble of our Constitution by the 42nd Amendment in 1976, during the Emergency in India. It implies equality of all religions and religious tolerance. In other words, India does not have an official state religion. Every person has the right to preach, practice and propagate any religion they choose. The government must not favour or discriminate against any religion. It must treat all religions with equal respect. All citizens, irrespective of their religious beliefs are equal in the eyes of law.

And when has the Congress NOT discriminated between religions or communities ??? Not treated some as more equal than others??

How can having reservations on the basis of caste  (even after more than 50 years of Congress rule out of the 60+ of India’s independent history) lead to blurring of caste lines?? How?? Do enlighten me please.

And reservations on the basis of religion???

That’s unconstitutional!! But who cares right??

The first point raised by any anti-Congress fellow is the 1984 riots.

So the Congresswallahs feel all apologetic over this and say ”really sorry” ,”shouldnt have happened and really see how we have come such a long way”…”it happened more than 20 years back”.

The fact of the matter is there is not one single party in India that can stand upto the scrutiny of a GENUINE SECULARIST.

Understand that the Congress is no different.

All the political parties have had bloody hands at one point or the other.

Even the Leftists despite all their tom tomming have indulged in loot and rape and killings.
Yes, they might say it was the work of a few lunatics.But the lunatics count themselves as party cadres.

Anyway, I am digressing.

Back to Congress.

Someone once compared the Congress (or was it the Nehru-Gandhi dynasty? Oh Well its all the same isnt it? 😆 Thats all I feel like doing.. laughing my guts out when I see a holier than thou Congress supporter) to a Banyan Tree,a Bargad ka ped….its a tree that does not allow any other plant to grow…

I think thats pretty much true for the Congress.

Whatever else you might say for the BJP,I know I use a few choice words myself ..######!A#####  and what not! You have to say,the poor sods have to work their way up instead of someone giving them the position on a platter…ofcourse,  how they work their way up sometimes should ideally land them in jail, but sadly that almost never happens. Even certain other saathi parties which do the same. And so a Varun, a Raj are allowed to go scot free to become future Modis.

Let’s start on the Congress shall we?

The most secular of all parties.The most untainted  party . (That WAS sarcasm btw)

The then Prime Minister of India, Rajiv Gandhi, son of Indira Gandhi, made an insensitive statement at Boat Club in New Delhi on November 19 1984, on the birthday of Indira Gandhi,  “Some riots took place in the country following the murder of Indiraji. We know the people were very angry and for a few days it seemed that India had been shaken. But, when a mighty tree falls, it is only natural that the earth around it does shake a little.”.

His widow, Sonia Gandhi and current President of the Congress Party, officially apologized in 1998 for the events of November, 1984.

Someone from the Congress apologised! Praise the lord!  hmmm..After how many years?

14 YEARS!!

And after the apology this was done.

New Delhi, Nov 24 , 2008 (IANS) Anti-Sikh riot victims Monday criticised the Congress for fielding former police officer Amod Kanth to contest the Delhi assembly election. Kanth is accused of helping the 1984 rioters.”The Congress first helped leaders such as Jagdish Tytler, Sajjan Kumar and H.K.L. Bhagat by giving them senior positions, and to make it worse it has now given a ticket to Amod Kanth,” head of 1984 anti-Sikh riots victims’ welfare society Surjit Singh told reporters here.

He said Kanth, who has been given a ticket from Sangam Vihar assembly constituency, is accused of openly helping rioters during 1984 anti-Sikh riots. Also, his name is included in the list of accused officers in the Nanavati Commission report.

“What does the Congress want to convey by giving tickets to such candidates?” he questioned.

Singh said on the one hand Rahul Gandhi is giving statements that 1984 riots were wrong while on the other hand he is quiet on this kind of decision.

“We want that the Delhi government takes all steps for rehabilitation of riot victims but it is not possible during the Congress rule. That is why we appeal to punish the Congress and dethrone them,” he said.

The 1984 anti-Sikh riots victims’ welfare society also announced support to Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and Shiromani Akali Dal (SAD) in the elections.

This was last year. 2008 to be precise.

What is happening this year??

This.

Ranchi, March 26 2009(IANS) Members of the Sikh community in Jharkhand Thursday held protests against the Congress’ move to field those accused of involvement in the 1984 anti-Sikh riots in the coming general elections.

Hundreds of Sikhs participated in the protests, under the banner of Jharkhand Sikh and Punjabi Cultural Society.

The society’s spokesman Kawaljeet Singh said the community was “hurt” over the Congress issuing tickets for two Lok Sabha seats in Delhi to Sajjan Kumar and Jagdish Tytler, who faces a Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) inquiry into his alleged role in the riots. He demanded the party change its candidates.

“If the Congress fails to cancel their tickets, then the Sikh community will hit the streets and may call on people not to vote for the Congress,” he said.

Around 3,000 Sikhs were killed in 1984 in riots that broke out following the assassination of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi by two of her bodyguards.

OH! And do read this.

Victims of 1984 anti-Sikh riots reject Nanawati Commission Report, holds Congress responsible for the Carnage.

Rejecting the Nanawati commission’s contention that Congress could not be held directly responsible for the riots, J S Pholka, a senior lawyer who has argued for justice to the riot victims for around two decades, asked how the Congress could be seen differently from H K L Bhagat, then Delhi Congress president and Sajjan Kumar, party’s Chief Ministerial candidate in the capital.

“There is absolutely no doubt that Congress party was responsible for the riots. Don’t workers and leaders constitute a political party? Is it a commercial company where only a handful at the top makes the company? Pholka asked talking to “Asian Tribune” at his residence in South Delhi.

Pholka claimed that politicians and police were encouraged to kill people in Gujarat in 2002 because the accused of 1984 riots have gone unpunished. Demanding special laws to deal with mob violence, he said that he did not look at 1984 and 2002 as Sikh and Muslim issues.

These were not riots.They HAVE to be called pogroms.A systematic killing of Sikhs was carried out in Delhi.

Pogroms are cold blooded.HERE ONLY the SIKHS were massacred .

Delhi-based lawyer KTS Tulsi says the way the ruling Congress party-led government has treated the latest inquiry into the 1984 riots is “shameful”.

”Criminals just followed the politicians – but 1984 made them realise people leading mobs and killing others could get elected .”
No wonder the Sikhs are bitter and the media is sceptical.

-Lawyer Harvinder Singh Phoolka

Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has apologised to the Sikhs and promised those named in the report will be investigated.

There is a feeling of deja-vu about this attempt to atone.

Congress chief Sonia Gandhi apologised for the 1984 riots over a decade ago and promised action.

 

The Asian Age summed the mood up in a front-page headline that simply said: “Mother of All Cover-Ups.”

Newspapers are already talking about the need for something along the lines of South Africa’s post-apartheid truth and reconciliation commission to unravel the truth and heal the wounds.

Because, as The Pioneer newspaper said, “justice delayed, also denied”.

And do read more on Wikipedia .I know ,I know how can wikipedia be the most correct source?But atleast the sequence of events as they unfolded in Delhi have been given correctly.The rest is upto your judgement and ofcourse you can always google :/

And then 92 and Mumbai.Let’s not forget that ,shall we?

It may be necessary to remember that the Congress government of Sudhakar Naik of Maharashtra remained virtually inactive while the riots raged, forcing prominent citizens of Mumbai to approach the governor to intervene.

It was also known at the time that the police were siding with the rioters in several areas. This shameful similarity between what happened in Mumbai in 1991-92 and during the Gujarat riots of 2002 is obvious. This is probably the reason why Congress president Sonia Gandhi now wants the Vilasrao Deshmukh government in Maharashtra to bestir itself lest she be required to answer accusations of Gujarat-style inaction when her party faces the electorate later this year in Gujarat.

Yet, it is very much clear that a Congress government too doesn’t always like to be seen being pro-active in the matter of saving minority lives in case it loses the support of Hindus. This is precisely the reason why only perfunctory steps were taken against the guilty after the Commission’s report was submitted, persuading Justice Srikrishna to demand that it should be made mandatory for a government to implement its recommendations, as in Australia and South Africa.

Jawahar Lal Nehru.

Ogden Nash’s doggerel published during his 1961 visit to the US sums it up quite well:

”Just how shall we define a Pandit?

It’s not a panda, nor a bandit.

But rather a Pandora’s box

Of sophistry and paradox.”

Nehru’s socialism has been the subject of much debate and has been described by rediff.com columnist Rajeev Srinivasan as the Nehruvian penalty of 50 wasted years. From -Nehru: The Invention of India, by Shashi Tharoor, Penguin India (Tharoor and his book and the Congress..there is irony in there somewhere)

His 17 years in office laid the foundations of dynastic rule.Granted he was a visionary,a leader. But the very fact that by the end of those 17 years no leader could even reach his stature should say something shouldn’t it?

A leader who was brilliant but one who sadly failed to think of new alternatives or let any new Indian leaders develop and think on their own. I admire the leader that he was. I am disappointed at his long term vision.

It is topic of huge curiosity for me personally as to why after his death in 1964 and then after Lal Bahadur Shastri’s untimely death in 1966, Indira seemed to be the logical choice to all the Congressmen.

Slavish tendencies clearly visible perhaps??

Some of the veteran members of the Congress did not accept her leadership and they tried to dispose her off. In 1969 the Congress split up into two parties.

Since Jawahar Lal Nehru, four generations of the Nehru-Gandhi family have dominated the Indian political scene.

What does it say about a party where the same family has been ruling since generations??

Even millionaires find it hard to sustain their wealth over so many generations!

Indira, Operation Blue Star, Assaasination,84 riots, IPKF and Sri Lanka, Emergency, Overruling the Court’s decision in the Shah Bano case,(done ofcourse to placate Muslims who had gotten all enraged), hmmm now what could he do to please Hindus? Why Open the Babri Masjid ofcourse! Opening of the Babri Masjid for worship (Brilliant!and this is sarcasm again) by Rajiv, (Just why did he unlock the masjid in 86????)….yes,events still might have unfolded in the same manner but atleast they could have been prevented or delayed…

This is what Rahul Baba had to say on the issue in 2007.

Speaking to reporters on the way from Meerut to Deoband in the Muslim heartland of UP, Gandhi said: “Had anyone from the Gandhi family been active then, it would not have happened at all. I have heard my father telling my mother that he would have stood in front of the masjid to protect it.”  ROFL!!!Someone tell him to keep his naivete at home please before he embarks on these P2P contact journeys(people to people as the Congresswallahs call it 😀 ) (I was laughing out loud here)

And addressing students at Deoband’s Islamic seminary, Rahul reminded them of his family’s heritage. “I am blind to caste and religion. I see everyone as Hindustani… If one Hindustani tries to harm another, I promise I will come in between. Please remember that I am the grandson of Indira gandhi” ( Yes,yes, Rahul baba thats all you are, sadly)

Why couldnt you have some brains with those chocolate boy looks? *sigh*

 

Though aimed at garnering crucial Muslim votes in the Assembly elections, his remark that the Babri Masjid demolition would not have taken place if a Gandhi had been active in politics then betrays both ignorance of history and a dynastic arrogance that smack of political immaturity.

Since the demolition of the Babri Masjid on December 6, 1992 took place when the P V Narasimha Rao Government was ruling at the Centre, Rahul’s comments are a direct indictment of his own party and its erstwhile prime minister. Several senior Congress leaders at that time were critical of Rao’s perceived inaction that facilitated the demolition on that “Black Sunday.”

But none, including Arjun Singh, quit the party over the demolition. As such, it was a collective failure of the Congress and the Central government. To distance his family from the party at this stage and give the impression that only the Gandhi family was the custodian of secular values which the party did not uphold is unlikely to help the Congress’s overall image — and as such is bad politics.

But it is also skewed history because well before Narasimha Rao took over power, it was the Rajiv Gandhi regime’s flirtation with “soft Hindutva” that helped the Ramjanmabhoomi campaign launched by the RSS-VHP-combine from the mid-1980s.

And oh this is what another party(not glorious by any means) had to say about the issue in 2007.

Reminding Rahul that the locks of the disputed structure were opened during the regime of Rajiv Gandhi, Singh said that the young leader should realise that the ‘Shilanyas’ (foundation stone ceremony) at Ayodhya was performed during that period in the presence of Congress leaders N D Tiwari and Buta Singh.

Alleging that the Babri Masjid dispute became more complex during the Rajiv era, the SP leader said that it cannot be forgotten that the late leader had launched the Congress campaign in the 1989 polls from Ayodhya.

Now to open a Pandora’s box.

Reservations.

Who started them?

Ambedkar would be the first answer.

Yes,he did .Though his idea of reservations was quite different from what the Congress has made it today.I am sure that after more than 6o years of reservations he would never have thought that they would still be so needed and yet be so useless.

Reason? The Congress government,which has been in power for oh! well …I dont know…err…how many years exactly? Would someone tell me pelase?

V.P Singh kickstarted things by dusting off an old file and implementing its recommnedations.Mandal Commisssion to be precise.

Arjun Singh’s proposal has been derisively described as Mandal-II.

The Muslim community in India should be recognized as a Backward Class and should be given reservation along with SCs, STs, and OBCs, demanded Joint Committee of Muslim Organizations for Empowerment (JCMOE) at the end of a national convention for Muslim reservation in New Delhi today.

Ameer of Jamaat-e-Islami Hind said the Sachar Report has established that the governments have been biased against the Muslim community, so it is necessary for them to grant reservation to the community for its social, economic and education progress.

Justice Yameen (Retd. Judge of Rajasthan High Court) said the Muslim community should get ready for a long fight for this cause. Giving example of Gujjar movement he said that community has sacrificed its 25 members for reservation which is still a dream.

It has appealed to all secular political parties to exert due pressure on the government for urgent action on the recommendations of the Sachar and Mishra Reports, and urged Muslims to support only the secular parties which are committed to reservation for Muslims and field adequate number of Muslim candidates in all Muslim-winnable constituencies.

SECULAR PARTIES!!! What a joke!! I mean really! In the first line it is said that the governments have been biased against the community,in the very next breath it is claimed that only SECULAR   parties will help them get the reservations!!

Irony eh??

Is it near impossible for them to figure out that it is the very ‘secular’ government that has been in power mostly and has been ‘biased’ as they say. Or maybe it is precisley because they HAVE figured it out that such statements are being made?

And taking the example of Gujjars!! Brilliant!! This IS what happens when you teach the people of a country that to claim backwardness is a sureshot way of reaching high!

Let’s all claim backwardness shall we? After all we are a backward country ,a third world one. Why not officially be a part of the OBC/ST/SC/Mnority categories??

ALL of India will get the benefits! Yes,Sir we will!

Will reservation benefit the Muslims in India?  (article excerpts)

-By Pratap Bhanu Mehta (link given at the end of the para)

The space for an autonomous Muslim politics has been almost non-existent, caught between political parties that ominously target them, and political parties that cynically use them. And Muslim politics has not been well served by its leaders, who have been reluctant to democratise institutions relevant to Muslims. All of these forces have combined to ensure that Muslims, rather than being integrated as equal citizens, unencumbered by the weight of their identities, are constantly put in the position of being a supplicant minority. Millions of ordinary Muslims have paid the price for this myopia.

What the Muslims need most of all is defeating the ideologies of hate that have made them more vulnerable over the last decade or so. Hindutva was, in part, made possible by Congress’ footloose interpretation of secularism. On this view secularism meant generating a political dynamic whereby religious groups would jostle with state for benefits qua religious communities.

This was a secularism of political expediency, not a secularism of principle. It created an ugly politics, where different religious groups would measure their standing by how many concessions they had mange to wrest from the state qua religious groups. Rather than making religious identities irrelevant for politics and public policies, it opened up space for them even more insistently. Anybody familiar with our recent history ought to understand that this reification of religious identities and their intrusion into public policy is a recipe for disaster. It is wishful thinking to suppose that enacting reservations for Muslims qua Muslims, will not unleash a politics of that kind again. We will all start measuring what a government does, not by the general provisions it makes for the common good, but by the benefits it targets towards particular communities. Anyone familiar with recent Indian history ought to be disturbed by this scenario, for its biggest beneficiaries are going to be the votaries of Hindutva.[MORE HERE]

 

Is anyone here still under any doubt???

It is time to wake up and snap out of that dream/delusion that we are under.

Think as Indians and not as Hindus,Christians,Muslims ,Jains,Buddhists,OBC’s,SC’s ST’s.

That way lies only more divisiveness and doom.

A society divided. India in tatters.All the political parties are the same.So to say that party A looks better because party B is pathetic is akin to settling for the mediocre or maybe the bigger devil?

 

The Congress! The most propah of parties or atleast thats what its supporters would like to believe. The Holier than thou attitude of the Congress which would be hilarious were it not so irritating.

The way all the Congresswallahs touch madam’s feet.

The way her two children seem like heirs of a kingdom.Absurd!

The way all foreign dignitaries land up at Madam’s place,as if the visit will not be complete without a trip to 10 Janpath.

What is her status that requires these visits?

Is she the leader of the opposition?

Is she the Prime Minister of India? What is she?

And how come all the Indians have quietly accepted a woman simply on the basis of who her husband was?And who her mother-in-law was?

Doesnt that sound insulting? Where is her own identity?

A feminist somewhere is turning in her grave right now at this moment.

This is the Congress which never functions like a democratic party.Never has infact.

Margaret Alva says party tickets are being sold in Karnataka and she is thrown out of the party.

This is a party that sits on the floor all laid out with diwans , its members wear khadi, wear gandhi caps and a token picture of the Mahatma and others will always be found in the background.

OH!And how can I forget the drama covered live by the Indian media?When everyone was waiting with bated breath to see if madam would oblige us or not.

Please become the PM, please …they shouted in the streets. They literally begged. Just the thought of having Rajiv Gandhi’s widow as Prime Minister was enough for the poor souls.

Some carried it further.

Ex-MP Gangacharan Rajput stood on top of a car and took out a revolver attached to the drawstring of his pyajama and pointed it towards his head. ‘‘Sonia Gandhi ko yahan aane ko bolo. Nahin to main goli chala dunga (Call Sonia Gandhi or I’ll shoot myself)

Sorrow gave way to melodrama. Mahila Congress members wrote a letter in blood to Sonia Gandhi. ‘‘We want only Sonia Gandhi. The people have given her the mandate,’’ said Sushma, a Mahila Congress leader from Bihar.

Is it any wonder that with such a slavish mentality India was ruled for so long??

So please before getting all horrified when someone calls Congress and BJP two sides of the same coin….keep in mind the history of this most farcical party in India.

This whole drama  over who is more holy in the Indian political scene reminds me of this couplet by Pakistani poet Habib Jalib,

”Tujhse pehle voh jo shaks yahaan takht-nashin tha,

usko bhi apney khuda honay pay itna hi yakeen tha”

 

 sikhs_camp_shadara_1984_prashant_070411_outlook_india2

”Are we not Indians?”

Written on the wall behind.

603px-sikh-property-burning-1984-delhi1
After the outbreak of rioting, a policeman walks past burning shops in downtown Delhi.

”The backlash is terrible.A civil servant said. It reminds me of the days of partition”

All images courtesy Wikipedia

 

Please note that a lot of the text presented here has been quoted with sources. I can only take credit for the article in part.

 

NO I am not a Sikh. But I am an Indian.
My heart does not bleed on the basis of community or religion but simply becasue another Indian had to see gruesome horrors because of who ‘they’ thought he/she was.

 

 

 

Some interesting thoughts

Identity Markers -Pratap Bhanu Mehta

INDIAN MUSLIMS – RESERVATION OR NO RESERVATION?

What if Rajiv gandhi had not unlocked the Masjid in 86?-Dr Koenraad Elst

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138 Comments leave one →
  1. April 8, 2009 9:48 am

    Hi,

    Loved the clean lines on your new blog, although your posts are as incisive (and as long) as the old blog. That was a long trek you took us through the history and dynamics of political divisiveness and hypocrisy. I totally agree with your final resolution to think as as Indian.

    I also loved the why I love teaching post, because I have had my joys and self-doubts from the same profession.


    me-thanks Sucharita .. I love this new place a lot too 🙂 lol@as long … Kya karun? Its a disease by now 😀
    yup as an Indian and nothing less … Great to hear that from you 🙂

    cool! you are a teacher too? 🙂 You teach in college right?awesome! yeah it is an amazing profession, one we are lucky to be a part of
    so understand the joys and self doubts part 🙂

    keep going 🙂

  2. April 8, 2009 10:04 am

    I dont know what to say…. 😦
    I initially thought that BJP was bad, and then when I did some research, I realized that the congress is no better.
    But yes, I do agree with you on the Pseudo Secularism part….. We are all hypocrites…….. and I suppose that includes me as well….

    The future looks bleak, until good people take things into their hands……
    I am reminded of the lyrics of the song from yuva (ayutha ezuthu in tamil) now…..

    PS: I read the whole thing!!! good one Indyeah.

    me-Yeah OG ..the whole scenario does look really bleak at times. 😦 ..the pseudo secularism is not for you or me..it doesnt exclude or include us..it simply includes anyone who looks and talks and writes and acts on things in a selective manner…based on religion/community/caste/anything else…

    The future looks bleak, until good people take things into their hands……
    true but the good people either get sucked into that same murky world or are wayy too good to survive in there..or are too reluctant to enter this field

    I loved the Hindi Yuva…is this one some other movie?what do the lyrics say in general?

    you read the whole thing?err are you sure..?*looks at OG in disbelief* 😀
    okay if you say so 😀 thanks a lot 🙂

    • April 8, 2009 11:49 pm

      Who is secular? CPM has tied up with PDP in Kerala…Madani, the PDP head, was once described as an “extremist Muslim fundamentalist” by the Left and it’s the same Left that has now forged a relationship with him because they are afraid of losing…All of them are a bunch of hypocrites!

      • April 9, 2009 5:47 am

        I second you Bones….. 😦

      • Indyeah permalink*
        April 9, 2009 10:23 pm

        yes who is secular?And the answer as we all know is no one. 😦

        hypocrites of the first order!

    • April 9, 2009 5:46 am

      yeah, talking about the title song in Hindi Yuva…. 🙂
      about how the future is in the hands of the young and on how, the young will change “FATE”….. 🙂

      BTW, I am also planning to start a party for my caste and run for CM in tamil nadu….. 🙂 yes, with a heavy dose of Hindutva in it….LOL hehehehehehehehe
      it might be the only thing that works….. 😦 unfortunately…. 🙂 LOL

      • Indyeah permalink*
        April 9, 2009 10:26 pm

        yeah I liked that song too 🙂
        LOL:D dude beware !someone just might read and try to recruit you as a foot soldier for Hindutva 😀
        bhaago!

  3. April 8, 2009 12:56 pm

    Oh long. . but good post. As u rightly pointed out Congress follows a soft hindutva line where ever it can and its pro minority token gestures are many a time counter productive. In States where hindutva forces are strong (Gujarat, MP) Congress never fights hindutva as most of the congress men are in the same boat. The difference is you now see Varun’s pic in BJP posters throughout india while congress hides Tytler’s pic and confines it to Delhi.Do u support any kind of reservation?

    • Indyeah permalink*
      April 9, 2009 6:13 am

      ha ha! yeah long post as usual
      Thanks
      yes the Congress is guilty of doing both many a time

      The difference is you now see Varun’s pic in BJP posters throughout india while congress hides Tytler’s pic and confines it to Delhi

      So which one is worse?The one who flaunts it and refuses to apologise or the one who hides it and pretends it doesnt exist?that it never happened?
      Both would be on the same level is my guess…because hiding it or flaunting it does not lessen the grief of the victims in either case…the culprits still remain unpunished and out on the streets…the victims are still victims be it 25+ years later or 6+ years later
      See?This is exactly what I am talking about! When I talk of Congress and its faults, everyone automatically starts pointing fingers at BJP..
      The same thing happens when i talk of BJP…
      why not look at cases in their context??

      Yes, I support reservations based only and only on economic criteria…used to support reservations for women too thinking that
      a) Women do not belong to any caste/community/religion as a whole but simply are women…
      b)i thought that noone would grudge women the reservations because one would have to be a misogynist to do so..

      then a friend pointed out that if women talk of equality then they should stop asking for special privileges…after many heated discussions I thought that yes, how diff is claiming that women have been oppressed for so and so years and so give us reservation FROM we are X Y z community and we have been oppressed too and please give us reservation?

      SO in the end I am only in favour of reservation based on economic backwardness…

      Though I dont anything changing anytime soon.

      the funny thing is that I have defended caste based reservation so many times when ppl have attacked it.I have said that certain opressed ppl need it as a crutch till they can walk again…but then I also think crutches for how long???till eternity??
      I mean somethjing somewhere is really wrong if we still requre these kind of resevations after so many years of independence..!
      now they have become a tool in politics..and it will continue in the same vein …thats what it looks like!

      • April 10, 2009 1:06 am

        I understand and appreciate your views on Reservation.For those who have experienced social discrimination though they are economically sound may have another view point. If possible read “Dalits in India.Search for a Common Destiny” by Sukhdeo Thorat

        me-Thanks
        ..yes infact I remember reading an article about it in The Hindu here is the link
        http://www.hindu.com/2009/03/01/stories/2009030153460400.htm

        Mr Thorat says that policy-makers didn’t give much importance to the ‘untouchability’ factor and concentrated only on economic development of Dalits by pumping money. He felt the social scientists failed to guide them on how such policies did not make the desired impact due to exclusion and discrimination.

        Good point but how do we address it?By asking for continuation of reservations for another 60+years??

        also since reservations address the economic aspect and the laws are in place which make discrimination against the law and anyone who pratices it will land up in jail…what more can we do?Has Mr Thorat addressed that problem?Instead he writes about how even the private sector needs to have reservation!

        ..I have read the book…and as rich as it is in empirical data and is authored by none other than the UGC chairman ..the question still holds true…Will India benefit more as a nation IF the reservations were made on the basis of economic backwardness?

        Because that way all of India will be treatd as a whole…there will be NO caste lines dividing us, no lines of religion or community..

        The book says that there is discrimination still on the basis of caste and how the sc/st’s are not able to make profits out of the business even if they do manage to srat it because various secindary resources are denied to them…

        yes agreed…but the fact that there is still discrimination today in society not to mention how the creamy layer is taking all the benefits should be no reason to continue this further..

        Now going by the logic given in the book, SCs and STs are not very well off and find it hard to start any venture successfully…

        now if the reservations were on the basis of economic backwardness wont these classes still get the benefits??Or will someone deny them that?

        I think it is the POOR who need help the worldover..India is no different..
        so the poor it should be..atleast that way India will not be divided further.

        I have only one MAJOR problem with this book..

        The book makes a strong plea for a parallel reservation policy for the private sector, covering various markets, as there is evidence of caste-based discrimination

        Now this does NOT go down my throat at all..it is damn hard for me to digest!I mean were the caste based reservations in the govt sector not enough that one has to start doing it here as well?
        will do a post(as long as this one 😀 ) on reservation sometime…

        On a diff note you have an off today? 😀
        usually see you online at around 2 or 3 at night

        • April 10, 2009 9:04 am

          Thank you for the long comment. Wont discuss it further here.Just highlighted another point of view. Will wait for your long post on reservation.No off day. You changed to WordPress,that is why more instant comments [from the cell].

          me-What?My long comment was in vain? 😀
          okay when I do a post on reservations which will be god knows when 😀
          hmm cells and WP..cool concept and easy too

      • justice permalink
        June 16, 2009 4:37 am

        e funny thing is that I have defended caste based reservation so many times when ppl have attacked it.I have said that certain opressed ppl need it as a crutch till they can walk again…but then I also think crutches for how long???till eternity??
        I mean somethjing somewhere is really wrong if we still requre these kind of resevations after so many years of independence..!
        now they have become a tool in politics..and it will continue in the same vein …thats what it looks like!

        If you are referring to Sikhs, Manmohan Singh is nothing but a tool of a distinctly Hindu government.

        When a childs father is killed and mother raped before being murdered in the one place they consider safe in the whole world, the child is going to want justice, no matter how long it takes. whether it be to murder those responsible or simple seek a sincere apology and compensation I think one of these is the least deserved. So far all sikhs have recieved is a halfhearted apology for a family member of the evil black hearted and may I add incredibly ugly witch responsible.

        That’s not justice and no matter how long it takes, justice will be served. Sikhs lawyers and businessmen around the globe have begun to gather and it will be delivered soon.

        me- I agree that this is not justice at all.I pray that justice will triumph.
        Amen!god bless.

  4. April 8, 2009 1:48 pm

    the country needs to be brainwashed of having the gandhi boy and gandhi babe over the throne — we need a strong PR for this —

    the umblical code of the indians towards the nehru/gandhi family has to be burnt now and the ashes buried somewhere so that even a whiff of air should not hit the next generation and it should stink so bad that the present generation and todays voters run for safety and say — ” lets put our heads together and work for something that will build india and not divide india “

    me-brilliant Anrosh! I remember the last comemnt of yours too..the one about Indians following this GAndhi khaandaan..
    simply have put your comment in bold because you have said it all and quite brilliantly too!
    Will a time ever come when India doesnt know who the Gandhis were?When we would have to refer to History books to find out?I sure hope so!
    Hope they get buried in history books somewhere

    • April 10, 2009 5:44 pm

      Anrosh a request..please do one of your kickass (Kislay has a copyright on this word 😀 ) posts on the Gandhi khandaan or even better, the amazinng slavish mentality of Indians …whenever you do get time that is 🙂
      thanks 🙂

  5. April 8, 2009 2:16 pm

    Dont you think this Communalism is used by all to hide real issues that India need to discuss? Run up to US elections saw useful discussions on health and education. We here debates only on religion and caste.Are we bloggers also falling to that trap? We are in the group of least developed countries in terms of human development index. Why dont we discuss targets like 90%literacy and immunisation in 5 years?

    me-very true Charakan…However This is exactly what the janta in Gujarat has done..and yet I ask myself from time to time ”have they made the right choice?”
    By opting for development instead of humanitarian issues first?By voting to power a man and a party which has had bloody hands?

    Why dont we discuss targets like 90%literacy and immunisation in 5 years?

    We dont discuss it because we cant afford to…we in India are in a catch 22 situation…to discuss development and ignore the communal aspect?OR to focus on the communal aspect and forget the developmental issues for the time being?

    I would have to say that we need a healthy dose of both…discussions on both are necessary…
    I mean what would have happened had bloggers not discussed Varun gandhis’ hate speech?and had instead discussed other issues?We would have been horrified right?

    So for me this 84 case is right up there in importance as the Gujarat one or in a way the Varun GAndhi one..
    I want to discuss it…
    so trap or no trap…I think first we need to dig ourselves out of the hole that India seems to have fallen into…

    • April 9, 2009 9:00 am

      indyeah — charakan has hit the nail on the head — what is the mandate in terms of health — ( everybody cannot afford private hospitals ) what is public health all about. we all are complacent with the private schools we can afford to go to – 70 % or more ( don’t quote me — but a large percentage of kids do not have schools — and as i said before some of best brains in the country lie in the villages of india ( another friend who studies in one of the top 10 schools in the world also reiterates the same thing – ) do you know how many did not what IIT is — and for the rich ( financially poor brains ) this is the best way — no donations period.

      what is the mandate towards drinking water ?
      Agricultural policies
      Transportation

      …where shall I end ? the sorrows of the rural india are like weeping willows ( we like to see them in colorful dresses and traditional jewellery ) but at night they do not have a roof to sleep nor drinking water — or has the means to go for primary health care —

      Does the TV discuss this when they talk about elections ? ( i do not know i do not have an indian channel at home ) …
      I do not see this in any newspapers either …

      Caste and religion are the GIMMICKS USE TO SWAY THE VOTERS AWAY FROM REAL ISSUES. They make the voters THINK WITH THE HEART (emotions ) and not with the head..

      ( charakan has written a good post on health recently )

      • Indyeah permalink*
        April 9, 2009 6:45 pm

        Exactly Anrosh…but then how do we talk of real issues?

        from which point?before we can even begin a dialogue Varun Gandhi goes and makes a hate speech..now imagine will people of Pilibhit …naive as they are…would they be talking of education, water and bijli right now….even though they need these desperately like the rest of Inida?
        No in their foolishness they would be more interested in the divide of us’ versus ‘them’…and down the drain go all the real issues…I am totally with you and Charakan on the real issue but how?How do we get the real issue into the national arena?

        Or if someone else does something equally reprehensible…we always lose focus..Charakan’s point is really valid…but how do we implement it while also at the same time keeping our focus on the fact that no criminals should enter politics and that such hate politics should not be played out?And also that the perpetrators should get punishment?

        like you said with the heart and not with the head….but how does one ensure the thinking with the head part?

        and Thanks for letting me know Anrosh will go and read Charakan’s health post

    • April 9, 2009 3:28 pm

      Just for your information Indyeah, only the GDP has improved in Gujarat.GDP of Gujarat was always better than most other States from the 1960s.The human development index has not at all improved.In rural areas it had even worsened.The Infant Mortality Rate and Maternal Mortality Rate do not differ much from rest of India. Gujarat’s IMR of 49 makes it claim the 18th position among Indian States,worse than most states in the South,West and even Utharanchal.
      few links http://www.nfhsindia.org/chapters.html
      http://hdr.undp.org/en/nhdr/monitoring/news/2007/title,6202,en.html

      • Indyeah permalink*
        April 9, 2009 6:38 pm

        I am sure the figures are correct Charakan and I am dead sure that Gujarat was better even before Modi arrived on the scene..he is just pretending that its all his work that has borne fruit…so yes, I dislike anyone who says that Modi made Gujarat properous..thats just too much of an exaggeration

        but that is what I am saying…how will we vote for the real issues when politicians dont just keep talking of communal issues…caste/religion etc but also make sure that people do kill and get killed in riots…then how do we talk of the real issues?

        In your opinion Charakan what has the Gujarat janta voted for?’
        Because for a long time and even now it seemed to me that they were of a divisive mindest to have voted for Modi.What kind of a state votes a killer to power???

        Thanks for the links..I agree completely that Gujarat has fared worse…but my question was more on the lines of ”what have the people of Gujarat voted for?”

        Because whenever I talk to any Gujarati they tell me about development…..now that is hard for me to digest..that a state that has a killer CM (what kind of ppl vote this guy to power?) is progressing acc to them.

        • Indyeah permalink*
          April 9, 2009 7:59 pm

          a point that I missed out on Charakan..We bloggers or atleast the ones I know here are not falling into the trap simply becasue we try to criticise exactly the same aspects which leas to communal feelings and divisiveness…we try to criticise that which def needs to be criticised…

          So for me criticising the Congress and BJP are very, very important because these are the parties that are the major players….these are the parties that make the policies…so yes I want to question them on the policies too but I also want to ask them as to how dare they give tickets to murderers!

      • April 10, 2009 9:08 pm

        could you also find out how much power theft has stopped in the past 10 years in Gujarat, how many canals have been dug without any hurdles… how many farmers have benefitted by the canals and as a result they dont have to rob power any more…

        can you also find out how many new roads have been built… and how much corruption has gone down…

        I dont like to get into this wrangle… but you have no choices… its evil and evil and evil you have to choose from… nothing else…

        so you choose modi… who atleast gets the work done… no… figures may not reflect… and figures and statistics can be very tricky in India…

        go visit Sabarmati !! and you will see how Gujarat has changed… go and watch the height of the dam that went up suddenly in the last 10 years… Floods happened in deserts in Kutch goes on to say how much work has happened in the basic necessity building…

        me:Thanks Dhiren…I wanted the answer from a Gujarati hence my comments above…coz you see Charakan had asked a question as to why do we focus on communalism so much and not on developmental issues?

        so I said but thats exactly what the janta in Gujarat has voted for!Now the figures and the links that Charakan has given would make more sense to you than me I guess Dhiren..you will be better, much better qualified than me or Charakan to tell whether the figures are wrong or right! 🙂

        yes somewhere I do have a problem with Modi and how he has been elected again but my point here was that the Gujarat janta has voted for development right?So why does everyone have a problem with that?
        Why are people trying to prove that Gujarat has fared worse?I mean yeah Modi already got a prosperous state when he came to power but also atleast he is not treating it like crap! he is giving it attention right?

        • April 10, 2009 9:38 pm

          See… I dont have a problem with him being criticised… I really want the man to be tried ! He is guilty without doubt… and no arguments on that !

          I only want to say that, People of Gujarat voted for him inspite of Godhra… not because of Godhra… !!

          I try to stay away from these arguments coz… Modi and Godhra are inseparable… And Godhra casts a huge shadow on everything… And I am not debating Godhra… which was a crime on humanity… and Modi was a major reason why events escalated, he chose to kill when he should have chosen going after the killers.

          me-yes, Dhiren… see I am not a Gujarati so I am just an armchair critic… I wanted you to answer Charakan’s question ..coz you see I can believe figures and all but you will know the ground realities..

          and one imp point that you brought out Dhiren
          I only want to say that, People of Gujarat voted for him inspite of Godhra… not because of Godhra… !!

          Exactly!! Now this is something that only a Gujarati can make someone understand right?And why do we have such problems when Gujarati Janta votes for Modi? But no problems when we call the Congress the lesser evil?I mean evil is evil right?SO how can one be lesser or more?And the other thing is will the SIkhs vote for Congress ever?Despite the fact that for many of us the Congress might seem the lesser evil?
          So yes I agree Dhiren The Janta votes for who listens to it better, who will do something concrete for its development….and try as much as we can to criticise,…the janta will keep giving its verdict in the elections again and again like it does in Gujarat…
          so thank you for bringing in your perspective:)

          I can only react to figures..Charakan gave me figures so I said that might well be the reality…However Charakan is in Kerala while you are in Gujarat so I am more inclined to listen to you coz you would know the situation better

          About Modi yes I now how strongly you feel about him and how he didnt act and about everything else…believe me most of us know..which is why everything that you share here is taken more genuinely than anyone else 🙂

          • April 10, 2009 10:15 pm

            Here is one link… http://www.geocities.com/indianfascism/fascism/statistics.htm

            these are deaths in Hindu muslim riots in Gujarat from independence to 1992 …

            http://www.gujaratriots.com/23/myth-6-gujarat-riots-were-the-%E2%80%98worst-ever-massacre%E2%80%99-in-india/

            Also read the above links…

            Now you try and tell me…. if 2002 was anything new…

            Also please note… BJP first came into power in 1994 in Gujarat if I am right.. !!

            So when it comes to Modi people want to talk of Godhra… but from independence to 1994 Congress has had its own fair share of Hindu Muslim riots…

            So you tell me whom to choose ?? and who is the lesser evil ??

            The media showed Modi…

            alas when congress did these things… there was no such glaring media present !

          • April 10, 2009 10:17 pm

            Its only a perception that Congress is the lesser evil… and nothing more.. !

            They are more suauve and more diplomatic.. BJP is more in your face…

          • April 10, 2009 10:28 pm

            I agree completely! Was India haven of peace during the years of Congress rule?
            IF the BJP needs to be bashed up then so does the Congress!

            I mean I find it damn hard to believe that a party which has ruled(yes ruled) over India for more than 50+years out of the 60+years still blames the party that has ruled for some piddly lil years!!absurd!!

            and see Dhiren this is why India and all of us can never go forward…because we alwyas and always try to look for excuses…I mean how many more killings do we need before we realise that all the parties are the same?
            And trying to say that the Congress is the lesser evil and BJP is a bigger evil?.!!Try saying that in the widows colony in New Delhi! They will throw out the speaker!thats the kind of anger thats visible there!and we talk of lesser and more??
            is 3000 a figure thats not high enough??or should we regret the fact that there was no media then in such vast numbers to cover it ?coz then atleast we would have compared the BJP and the Congress at the same level..
            as long as we keep saying how one killer is better than the other we will be stuck right here in the middle of this carnage

          • April 10, 2009 10:39 pm

            Thats the thing Dhiren! Even if one does accept that Modi is guilty but the moment you start pointing fingers at the Congress in this country the COngresswallahs revert back to the tried and tested formula!!
            you know like crybabies!
            ”yeah we did that!so??look at the BJP!They are more bad!”

            I mean seriously!It amazes me as to how criticising the Congress results in being branded a fundamentalist or atleast someone who has sympathies with the BJP or with some Hindutva organisation..

            the implied observation always is if you are not with us you are against us and a Hindutva fundamentalist to boot!

            ISnt it simply amazing as to how the Congresswallahs have no better defence than to point fingers at another criminal?When they are the biggest goons around themselves?

        • April 10, 2009 9:44 pm

          Let me give you one example…

          Across India and I mean Across India (all states) … lots and lots and lots of Farmers are indulging in power theft to run their tubewells…

          No one can dare and touch these farmers….

          These farmers constitute a major vote-bank and we bloggers or office goers are not even 10% of that vote bank… No state in the country will dare touch them… the bureaucrats who would touch them will be transferred immedeatly…

          In Gujarat… catastrophe struck.. when Modi would send RAF personnels witht he Gujarat Electricity board employees to stop this power theft…!!!

          They actually beat up the farmers who tried to protest… !! They were stealing and they had the mob power… they were taken to task…. for a while the farmers were against Modi and wanted him out !!

          However the farmers were again won, coz the canal laying plans were so fast implemented… that the farmers actually didnt need the amount of electricity for tubewells… they got canals everywhere…

          The man works… and that is a fact… the man is not corrupt and that is a fact….

          the man is a killer and that is also a fact…

          • April 10, 2009 10:52 pm

            see this is something I didnt know and if what you are saying is being implemented to the T then the janta will simply vote for whoever gets the job done right?so yes elections will decide it best!
            we might cry and wring our hands and mouth words of doom but the aam janta has more sense of whom to vote for…
            they might or might not vote for Modi ..lets see..
            .I am clueless about Gujarat or anything to do with it.. let me repeat once more

            all I can do is look at figures and listen to Gujaratis… thats it…

    • nitwitnastik permalink
      April 9, 2009 6:53 pm

      @charakan

      I think your question is a very good question and a pertinent one. I share your thoughts about education and health development however I am not sure if that’s an either-or question. Religion is so pervasive in our culture that even education and health may not be able to turn the tide of atrocities in it’s name all by themselves.

      Although, looking at the list of countries at the top of the HDI does give us hope. If you look at the list of countries which are at the top of the human development index, most of those nations are non-theistic nations. I am not sure if health and education resulted in these countries becoming non-theistic or it was the other way around but I can guess that the secular and non-theistic culture did contribute partly towards that.

      There is an interesting book coming out called “The God Market: How Globalization is making India more Hindu” by meera Nanda which you may be interested in. Here’s a link to one of her articles on it.

      http://nirmukta.com/2009/03/29/pre-release-introduction-to-god-and-globalization-in-india/

      • Indyeah permalink*
        April 9, 2009 10:33 pm

        Great point that one NN! So would you say therefore that we do need to discuss how communalsim is spreading and has infact spread its tentacles everywhere on the Indian Political scene and our society as well.?
        and that therefore we have to have these kind of discussions to ensure that we always but always insist on a secular political space in India?and how that will automatically lead to a spacewhere developmental issues acquire prime importnace?

        Once we start a discussion on two points
        1)The secularism issue
        2)Developmental issues
        and these two have to go hand in hand at all times

      • April 10, 2009 9:11 am

        nitwitnastik, A good point.When there is a big economic and social disparity, Religion is usually used by the powerful to divide the poor. Just wrote a post about it and then only read your comments.
        http://mytake-charakan.blogspot.com/2009/04/communalism-and-indian-politics.html

    • April 13, 2009 11:05 am

      And lets not forget judiciary reforms too.. Will we ever see any high profile case ever being resolved ?

      me-Winnie I think it s just a myth that the Judicioary is the last bastion of democracy…a few good rulings over who is polluting India more and who is not following the law and rapping the state and central govts over a lot of issues does NOT make or mean a damn good judiciary,… the judiciary is as susceptible as the rest of them…and its simply an illusion we are living under that they are better…slightly better maybe but definitely not the paragon of virtue themselves
      so no, I do not see the high profile cases going anywhere topwards a concrete end…I do see them dragging on and on for years on end till the perpetrator dies of old age probably!

      • April 14, 2009 2:11 am

        Exactly! And thats why we need reforms! How come no one raises this issue in elections?

        • April 14, 2009 3:06 pm

          coz they know that its a hornet’s nest Winnie…you wont find them raising an active voice against some members of the Judiciary when the politicos themselves have so many skeletons in their closet…also, if they expose the judges and advocates whom will the politicos bribe?

  6. April 8, 2009 4:40 pm

    First kudos for writing such a brilliant piece. This should go as an article in a magazine. Well researched and almost all the points which proves the pseudo-secularism which exists in all parties. Finally good to see the definition too and NO! it was not coined by fanatics.

    Manmohan Singh had already predicted the backlash http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1246455

    From my interaction I have come to the conclusion that Sikhs are one of the most peace loving people in India. That is why we didn’t see small terror outfits at every nook and corner aftermath of 1984.

    Just like you even in our camp, many uncles became ‘Mona Punjabis’ fearing for life outside. I remember my dad telling us that our sabjiwala went and thrashed a civilian Sikh family and got TV, Fridge and everything from their house and police just stood there. Actually police encouraged it with the support of local Congress leaders. Much worse happened and Rajiv Gandhi had to say that. *disgusting* It is sad, Abhi.

    Priyanka Gandhi Vadra’s Father-in-law committed suicide 2 weeks back and the news just appeared briefly and then it was ordered to be scraped. Imagine if it was someone else. How the news would have spread. Entire Vadra clan committed suicide one after another.

    As I have always said we are between the devil and the deep blue sea. We have no options.

    • Indyeah permalink*
      April 9, 2009 6:48 am

      Thanks a lot Solilo
      yes, pseudo secularism needed to be defined …its a word thats apt for Indian political parties and some people . The trouble with Manmohan Singh is that there seems to be no difference whether he speaks or doesnt speak…he is betteer at beinng an economist and thats where he should have stayed…as it is he cant do a thing..because the real power lies elsewhere..

      you guys saw it too? 😦 it is heart breaking SOlilo 😦
      What kind of a nation is this?

      To see how a community that considers itself Indian is treated in its own country..

      yes I too find them peaceloving people and quite decent in their protests…despite all the previous incidents and injustices that continue till date these guys have never gone on rampages..

      look at what a mere shoe has done!
      if this is what the result is then more shoes I say! Jarnail SIngh ahs given them some justice partly atleast after 25+years
      Apparently Tytler has decided to opt out of the poll race

      yes we are between the devil and the deep sea…

      What to do? 😦

  7. April 8, 2009 5:13 pm

    Very well written and thought out…I agree with you – there are no secular parties in India…The word ‘secular’ does not exist in political lexicon…At least the BJP is outwardly communal…

    Jagdish Tytler’s clean chit was expected after Naveen Chawla took over as Chief Election Commissioner…Similarly, the Satyam scandal will die down because it has been handed over to the CBI because the Congress has an interest in it…

    me-Thanks Sraboney . Yes, no secular parties are left in India anymore.
    yes the word secular is dead and buried it seems 😦

    yes its amazing how the CBI has become a mere poltical tool and nothing else! imagine the CBI asking for the case against Tytler to be dismissed because the witnesses are not reliable enough! How many would buy that argument one wonders..

    yes , all such cases where the Congress has any interest will die a slow death..

  8. April 8, 2009 5:21 pm

    Abhi, congratulations for some thorough research about the political events of the past few decades in India.

    You have mentioned so many events that it is difficult for me to comment.

    However, I would like to observe that everywhere- in the newspapers, on news channels, on blogs- people are questioning Jagdish Tytler and Sajjan Kumar being allowed to stand for elections.

    In so many cases, we see that at most what happens to the guilty if they are ministers, MPs, police officials or civil servants is that they are ‘transferred’ or ‘suspended’ from service.

    Should not justice be served in reality and the guilty punished? Is being denied a ‘ticket’ or being suspended the most that will happen? How will the victims or their families get any closure?

    An independent and courageous Judiciary is what we need today.

    me-Thanks Manju
    people are questioning Jagdish Tytler and Sajjan Kumar being allowed to stand for elections.

    yes absolutely right Manju..I think what everyone including me is focussing on is the fact that first of all the tickets should be cancelled because the elections are almost here..secondly I think most of the people still have some faith in the judiciary so they are hoping that the verdict will give some justice to the victims of 84..

    Should not justice be served in reality and the guilty punished? Is being denied a ‘ticket’ or being suspended the most that will happen? How will the victims or their families get any closure?

    Absolutely! And I really hope that the verdict does give it to them

    I think now that the tickets have been cancelled we can now move on to the next step. which is asking for them to be punished..
    one shoe has brought the spotlight back on an incident ..an incident whose victims have been suffering silently since so many years….I really hope that they do get justice

  9. ruSh.Me permalink
    April 8, 2009 5:33 pm

    That’s a lots of facts, but can you write something on India in 120 words…without using the actual word India itself..!! try!! 😀

    http://klashknk.wordpress.com/

    me-lol! nahinn!! ye toh torture hai! 😀
    in 150 words?are you kidding?without using the word India? 😀
    okay will try for sure 😉

    • ruSh.Me permalink
      April 12, 2009 8:27 pm

      150 nahi, 120!!
      Entry Open!!

      me-Oh this is what you were talking about? 😀
      thanks for letting me know…will try to write it asap 🙂
      thanks a lot 🙂

  10. April 8, 2009 5:52 pm

    The year it happened, the riots in 1984, I had just got to Delhi, as a newly married bride 🙂 a few months already spent there. I remember my mother came the previous day, 29th Oct. to spend a few days there, and my elder brother, just inducted into the Navy was doing his pilot training at Delhi Flying Club. We heard the news somewhere in the after noon… and by evening, from our flat in Old Rajinder Nagar, Karol Bagh, all we could see around was thick black smoke across the skies of Delhi.
    My brother lost so many of his friends, who were Sikhs, travelling back to Delhi after a short leave, and he had to visit so many mortuaries to identify them, as he was one of the few officers left. Not even they were spared. The horror of those days, the 12 days of mourning, when looting and killing were all that happened in Delhi is fresh even today in my mind.

    This post just made me relive all of that. My brother, because of the stress he had undergone, in spending weeks at mortuaries trying to find them finally got a sort of epileptic attack, which stayed for a few years, during which time he was on low med category but subsequently he has recovered and is back to business as usual. I always but always choke up when I think of 1984. I did not have to undergo that suffering, but I was on the edges of it all, and I saw much, then, there. As you did too.

    And that is why Tytler and his likes should never never never be in governance again. And that is another reason why I can never vote for the Congress. Because it has repeated itself on other occasions. Gujrat was as much of a horror, yes… so there goes BJP too..!

    And as for Rahul…:
    U put that so well here!

    “Speaking to reporters on the way from Meerut to Deoband in the Muslim heartland of UP, Gandhi said: “Had anyone from the Gandhi family been active then, it would not have happened at all. I have heard my father telling my mother that he would have stood in front of the masjid to protect it.” ROFL!!!Someone tell him to keep his naivete at home please before he embarks on these P2P contact journeys(people to people as the Congresswallahs call it 😀 ) (I was laughing out loud here)

    And addressing students at Deoband’s Islamic seminary, Rahul reminded them of his family’s heritage. “I am blind to caste and religion. I see everyone as Hindustani… If one Hindustani tries to harm another, I promise I will come in between. Please remember that I am the grandson of Indira gandhi” ( Yes,yes, Rahul baba thats all you are, sadly)

    Why couldnt you have some brains with those chocolate boy looks? *sigh*”

    I couldnt continue reading after the first part of the article because of those memories, so I took a break and then continued.
    the Mandal Commission. Reservation. Why now? All over again?

    We prayed and prayed that Arjun Singh would see sense.. but did not too.

    As far as reservation is concerned, I am all for it, but only for those who are economically backward, those who show promise, which can be taken from school records, and given on that basis. Why not then…

    A disturbing trend this is, this pseudo secularism where people rave and rant and claim to be secular, but we know!

    Thanks Meg. For saying it as it is. Because this is it.

    Still, I hope, because we forgive. Forget too [and that is not good!]. And because we might somehow stumble upon some solace, somehow. The kids, it has to start all over again from there!
    And so I am glad you work with them, for I am sure that some of the idealism will transfer to a few under your care. God Bless! 🙂

    • Indyeah permalink*
      April 9, 2009 7:32 am

      (((hugs)))Usha
      😦 Rajinder Nagar and KArol Bagh?:( thats where some of he worst things took place 😦
      Your brother too suffered so much 😦 Its been heartbreaking to read about his collleagues USha…What was their crime?.that they belonged to a community to whom even the killers of Indira Gandhi belonged??Thats it..???

      😦

      dont read such articles Ushus when they trouble you so much okay?(((hugs))

      LOL@Rahul 😀 yeah he seems so pathetic to me when I see him on the political scene in India…maybe he should take up modelling? 😀 he seems better suited for that 😆

      We prayed and prayed that Arjun Singh would see sense.. but did not too
      Oh! we prayed too Usha! and how! and still that stupid senile fellow went ahead and did it.. 😦

      As far as reservation is concerned, I am all for it, but only for those who are economically backward, those who show promise, which can be taken from school records, and given on that basis. Why not then…

      Absolutely USha!!yes!! 🙂 you said all that I think of:))

      thank you for I learn a lil something from my friends everyday..and about working with kids who better than you to teach..err learn from? 😀
      (((Hugs))have a wonderful time:))
      psst.. bring some snaps too 🙂 even sceneries bhi chalengi :D..

  11. April 8, 2009 5:58 pm

    Seriously, secular values in India are a joke – the people do not understand it and the government doesn’t want to enforce it. I just wrote a post similar to yours.

    Anyway it’s just unfortunate that we don’t have an alternative other than the BJP or congress at the national level to vote for.

    Btw, have you ever thought that in a democracy, politicians are nothing more than a reflection of our own prejudices and morals? How could then a guy like Modi or an idiot like Bush ever get elected?

    • Indyeah permalink*
      April 9, 2009 7:51 am

      yes nothing and no one is secular anymore.

      yes read your post! brilliant one! and yet do see how the ones who should be discussing it will shy away…bloggers being a prime example.. coz we all pick up ‘safe’ topics like Hindutva or some such thing…other religions we wouldnt touch with a barge pole…
      reason given? oh! we dont know about other religions…yes we dont but we should, shouldnt we?
      I do know about some religions in detail and yet even I shy away from discussions..

      I am for responsible use of freedom of expression and not just willi nilly going hammer and tongs at anything and everything in the name of freedom…
      a touchy society like India requires a different treatment…sadly instead of healthy criticism we would rather straightaway graduate to the highest level of freedom of expression(something that India is not ready for yet) and then sermonise on paintings and books etc..

      tell me if the aam janta has no clue about how beautiful an art work is or what a book tries to say…if they dont have that ability to see the beauty wont it be easy to instigate them and make them go on rampages?

      Why cant we proceed gradually and then move on to the highest level?
      Because if we dont do that, then fundamentalists will keep taking advantage of the situation while the liberals can happily celebrate absolute freedom of expression

      We need to educate the masses first about art beauty and freedom of expression and make thme aware and then we can expect absolute freedom of expression…till that happens we will keep seeing more bloodshed and hooliganism in the name of paintings/books etc.

      anyway, let me try a discussion sometime apart from Hinduism and then see the brickbats I get..you will be amazed..

      yes such politicians are a reflection of the society for sure…and also a result of our inability to solve ceratin dilemnas ….in India what does one focus on?the issues are mind boggling!
      refer to Charakan’s comment and my answer above

      yes this is so disgusting and hopeless that we have only certain political parties at the national level and all of them are pathetic! 😦

      • nitwitnastik permalink
        April 9, 2009 6:15 pm

        First let me commend you for taking the time to read about Islam. Not many people do.

        Also, I see your point but I am not sure how we can have a gradual progression without speaking out against injustices.

        anyway, let me try a discussion sometime apart from Hinduism and then see the brickbats I get..you will be amazed..

        Indyeah, I encourage you to speak out. If we keep our mouths shut for fear of receiving brickbats or losing our popularity, we cannot hope to see any change in society. I receive a lot of hate mails from such people who would rather see injustice in the name of religion than admit that their is something wrong with their ideology.I know that if I stop pointing that out, I cannot hope to see any change in society (which is the reason we have blogs in the first place isn’t it?)

        And, I assure you that if you write up something on other religion which I think is not unfairly prejudiced and still people criticize you unfairly, I will be your pit-bull against those naysayers :-). Although I cannot gurantee that I will be very kind to them. 😀

        me-Thanks NN 🙂
        yeah I am kind of confused on that point too…personally I dont give a damn..but when I see unsocial elements ready to instigate people at the slightest opportunity then I do a rethink..anyway still searching for a way out of this one…

        thanks a lot for that encouragement….will write sometime for sure…then again my facts would have to be rocksolid 🙂

        LOL@not very kind to them
        Thanks 🙂

  12. April 8, 2009 6:15 pm

    Long post, yes, but not a word wasted. A timely reminder of what the Congress brand of “secularism” and slavishness has done to the country.

    “This was a secularism of political expediency, not a secularism of principle. It created an ugly politics, where different religious groups would measure their standing by how many concessions they had mange to wrest from the state qua religious groups. Rather than making religious identities irrelevant for politics and public policies, it opened up space for them even more insistently.” This says it all.

    What we have today is anything but secularism. Every single party is looking for votes along some communal dimension or another. And they have all, as you have so well brought out, made religious identities and divides sharper than ever before. History will record that the Congress party was single-handedly responsible for this.

    Only time will tell what price the nation will have to pay for this lust for power at any cost and greed for money that has overtaken our political class collectively.

    me-Thank you Sir
    yes this kind of slavishness and secularism is soo damaging …the way termites eat away andmake one hollow…India is gradually being eaten away by such Khaandaans, parties and their idiotic policies.

    ”History will record that the Congress party was single-handedly responsible for this.”

    This I agree with completely!
    yes, only time will tell…I really hope that India survives such morons

  13. April 8, 2009 6:49 pm

    I have never nodded as much while reading a post as I did today….

    Your post is a sum up of what I have been saying to my friends about congress. My question to that bloody party has always been one. What do they mean by communalism….if discrimination on the basis of religion is communalism then so is the discrimnation on the basis of caste….BJP has been a pro hindu party but it has no qualms in accepting it…whatever it does, it does openly…Congress is a bunch of hypocrites who show themselves to be holier than thou but they are worst….

    As u have yourself quoted Mandal Commission…I rememebr I was a kid then & I wasn’t aware about the existence of SC & ST’s but post these agitations I was more than aware. In class we used to whisper to eachother, see that girl/ guy he/ she is a SC ST..

    Babri Masjid happened because everyone was hand in glove in it….

    Congress is one party which I have loved to hate….and I liked your article a lot….have quite a much to say but then I wud be repeating what you have written….

    • Indyeah permalink*
      April 9, 2009 8:13 pm

      ….if discrimination on the basis of religion is communalism then so is the discrimnation on the basis of caste
      yes exactly!

      Thanks Smita yes this is the problem that I think a lot of us have withCongress..I mean its easy and quite justified to dislike BJP but when the Congress acts all high and mighty that is what irks me more..I mean a party which has been in power for so long and still has not been able to do a thing, a single thing to stop divisive politics and infact has contributed to it time and time again…

      The mandal commission is one of the saddest things in Independent India’s history… 😦
      What a load of crap! and look at where it is taking our nation!

      yes the Babri Masjid incident could have been stopped had the Congress stopped the Hindutva goons… 😦

      The goons acted the way goons do…but what about the government? 😦

      why didnt it stop and act firm?

      thanks SMita..I dont like the Congress for the exact same reasons..

  14. April 8, 2009 8:21 pm

    As always a very well researched post. You say it all so well. I remember we in the Airforce, had friends with names and not religion.Our friendship was a common ground.We were\are only Indians to eachother. Sadly, once outside the Airforce,things are different..
    Politics and Political parties are both based not on Unity but divisivness. These parties have their own , interpretation, principles and version of so called Secularism.Sadly corruption, morals and secularism are all on the same page.Once again a well researched post straight from the heart.

    me:-thanks

    I remember we in the Airforce, had friends with names and not religion.Our friendship was a common ground.We were\are only Indians to eachother. Sadly, once outside the Airforce,things are different

    yes we too suffered the same shock when we came out of the army! I mean we were constantly asked about our religion, caste , community and what not! In the army noone cared….
    The defence forces are one of the last places left where religion does not count ..and yet even there this absolutely moronic govt had the brilliant idea of getting a researchg or survey conducted on the basis of religion..
    One simply wonders at the brains behind that one…

    yes political parties and poltics are interpreted as well as interpret things according to their own convenience..

    one still hopes…that something somewhere will turn out okay…

  15. April 8, 2009 9:41 pm

    Indyeah!!! Have to say – this was a fantastic post!!! Another one, which should get published in a national level magazine or newspaper! The amount of research you have done is amazing!!!

    And every word you say – makes perfect sense! We keep talking about the ‘lesser evil’ – but is it really the lesser evil? Is any party today above the politics of ‘communalism’? And it is so sad that we do not have a national level alternative to the Congress and the BJP.

    As for Congress’s track record – I do think that our mainstream media has a lot to answer for too! They seem just as eager to brush off Congress’s issues as Congress themselves!

    The Sikhs are certainly one of the most peace loving and one of the most enterprising and hardworking communties in India.. It is sad that even after 25 yrs , they are yet to get justice! And you know what irks me the most? Our politicians seem to think that that only one community is a ‘minority’ in this country? Surely Sikhs, Christians, Jains are minorties too – amoung others? Why are they forgotten? Probably because they do not constitute as huge a ‘votebank’!

    As for the ‘crown prince’ – it makes me laugh!!! It is sad that in a democracy – a surname should have so much value!!! Yes, as you say – atleast in the BJP – they have to work their way up – in most cases! But BJP also succumbed to the ‘gandhi’ name in Varun Gandhi! How else can we explain his candidature? What has he done? Has he worked the grassroots? Which is why, I totally agree that the BJP and the Congress are 2 sides of the same coin.

    You have brought up so many valid points that I can hardly comment on all of it – but just wanted to say that I agree with everything you say here! Fantastic post!!!

    • Indyeah permalink*
      April 9, 2009 8:23 am

      Thanks a lot Smitha
      the words encourage a hell of a lot 🙂

      And it is so sad that we do not have a national level alternative to the Congress and the BJP.exactly!this is the main problem and like SOlilo says we are between the devil and the deep sea 😦
      <em>I do think that our mainstream media has a lot to answer for too! They seem just as eager to brush off Congress’s issues as Congress themselves! exactly!!MSM as Kislay a fellow blogger calls them or the mainstream media is simply a stooge of various political parties at various points of time!
      Disgusting!

      The Sikhs are certainly one of the most peace loving and one of the most enterprising and hardworking communties in India.. It is sad that even after 25 yrs , they are yet to get justice!
      Absolutely! They live and let live despite so many atrocities committed against them at so many points of time…
      Our politicians seem to think that that only one community is a ‘minority’ in this country? Surely Sikhs, Christians, Jains are minorties too – amoung others? Why are they forgotten? Probably because they do not constitute as huge a ‘votebank’!
      Brilliantly said Smita!This is the problem!by pampering any one community , the govt encourages a feeling of divisiveness to grow and develop…India strats thinking on the lines of caste/community/religion when it should be thinking like a nation..

      yes the fact that other ‘minorities’ do not constitute a major votebank is the main reason here

      The BJP and the COngress two sides of the same coin…definitely!
      yes everyone succumbs to the gandhi name somehow!weird na? what a slavish country we are living in!
      The Gandhi name is all rubbish!and Rahul baba should go and do modelling or something like I said in a reply 😆
      thats all he’s good for 😀

      thanks for the appreciation Smita

  16. April 8, 2009 10:50 pm

    feeling childish and doing such mature work !!

    These parties are of no religions… their only goals are “khurshi” for which they can use any religion, caste or objective to come to power… !!

    Seems from time to time, according to their whims and their carefully thought out motives… they can exploit any one at any time… to any extent… !!

    insight ful post ‘di… wtg… I loved the post… as it just exposes congress… a lot of people think they are secular.. coz they arent against muslims… !!

    Regards,
    from a Fan of yours !!!

    { p.s. finished lunch while reading this ! 🙂 }

    • April 9, 2009 6:45 am

      LOL Dhiru bhai….:) I finished dinner reading this post… 🙂 😀

      me- ha ha ha! mutters *so not funny* 😛

    • Indyeah permalink*
      April 9, 2009 8:33 am

      Thanks a lot Dhiren 🙂
      yeah anything for kursi so true 😦
      and all of them are pathetic!
      … a lot of people think they are secular.. coz they arent against muslims… !!

      exactly!!thats the problem! why discriminate at all?why treat some as special??that was a really good line Dhiren !:)

      thank you again:)
      😀 you finished lunch?and OG finished dinner! Should I write anotehr long post for breakfast too? 😆
      OG and Dhiren faint 😀

  17. April 8, 2009 11:14 pm

    Indyeah,really awesome post. I completely agree, Congress in pseudo secular, and the CBI a puppet of the central government, and people like Tytler nothing but opportunists ,waiting in hiding to make some moolah for themselves and their extended families.
    The ticket alloting is nothing but a high stakes auction, the higgest bidder gets what he wants, and then squeezes out XX times that when in power.

    • Indyeah permalink*
      April 9, 2009 8:26 pm

      Thanks a lot Rahul
      you have said it all and quite well too 🙂

      Yes there is nothing and no one secular in India today..

      and the least we can do is condemn all of them with the same intention..that of providing Indians with a clear perspectivetytler and Sajjan Kumar and the otehrs make me gag..wheneever Is ee them on TV.. 😦

  18. April 8, 2009 11:30 pm

    Of course, Congress is pseudi-secular. I guess last time on this blog I told about Himachal Pradesh Congress govt formulating anti-conversion bill. Also, COngress was at centre during Babri Masjid demolition. I have Mark TUlly’s account in India in Slow Motion how goverment didnt want to intervene and stop pulling down of Babri Masijid.

    I respect any kind of relief and aid provided to communities. Except Reservations. I hate them. They are a way fo making religion and caste our identity. Opening of Pandora’s box. Every government uses it to divide and rule. Decades of Congress rule are just a proof of that.

    • Indyeah permalink*
      April 9, 2009 8:31 pm

      yes you did Poonam and quite brilliant points they were too..
      I remember they were on the Die Welle post…

      yup I liked that book too..quite an insightful author that one!

      I respect any kind of relief and aid provided to communities. Except Reservations. I hate them. They are a way fo making religion and caste our identity. Opening of Pandora’s box. Every government uses it to divide and rule. Decades of Congress rule are just a proof of that.
      you said it Poonam!

      I hate reservations too! hate them..
      and now I am willing to let go od the women one too…lets just have reservations on the basis of economic backwardness…thats it..

      you know Congress supporters are unable to understand this anger against the Congress….and I always say that the anger is always more for those people from whom much is expected…and so much was expected from this party ,the Congress..and what have they given us?a nation divided!

  19. April 9, 2009 1:40 am

    I do not know. Simple right? But what you and me say doesn’t matter…you see kids are thought to say all Indians are my brothers and sisters…then where does it go wrong? It doesn’t matter who are the people we keep pointing fingers at ,for they will keep coming . By doing that we are not identifying Mr.Satan himself but only lending a face to him and once we burn/he burns us at a stake,we just go back to where ever for a while, nodding our heads as if its all done . I have repeated it over and over , the biggest mistake in this country is that the people with quality have now been discriminated and the country handed over to people ___________ .

    And the old bus thing too . You and me write just to appease ourselves . No more and no less. Why don’t people like you or me take to being the Hero? is that we can’t ? No, we know the way people behave. I was sent out of class today ,when I hadn’t done anything wrong .The fellow in question was just yappin yappin without give us time to think , I stopped tried to think and then when I missed what he was saying looked into my neighbour’s book and he sent us out. But thats the gist of what is happening , if you try to think , they send you out.We have to learn and go on…for it is about us and not them…

    • April 9, 2009 7:39 am

      Abhi, Look what you have done with your long post. 😛

      • Indyeah permalink*
        April 9, 2009 8:29 am

        😀
        LOL!

        • April 10, 2009 6:13 am

          P.S: go to your profile ( under my accounts) And edit your contact details(i.e. add your blog address there) so that your name gets linked here….

          me-aww..thank you so much Vishesh 🙂
          a lot! 😀
          this techno challenged ,lost in the wordpress maze friend is now happy 😀

      • April 10, 2009 1:05 am

        exactly !

    • April 9, 2009 9:13 am

      “if you try to think , they send you out” wow ! you would put any orator to shame

    • Indyeah permalink*
      April 9, 2009 8:37 pm

      Vishesh brilliantly said! all of it! and just as Anrosh has written about below..that one line was beautiful, sublime and insightful all at once!

      yes kids are taught that we are Indians first that we are all brothers and sisters…but somewhere somehow something goes drastically wrong..something is serioulsy wrong with our society …the child learns something else in school…sees and hears something else at home and in society…he/she starts getting conflicting views from diff sources..

      It doesn’t matter who are the people we keep pointing fingers at ,for they will keep coming . By doing that we are not identifying Mr.Satan himself but only lending a face to him and once we burn/he burns us at a stake,we just go back to where ever for a while, nodding our heads as if its all done
      brilliant! Vishesh..yes we forget that its us who is both the angel at tims and satan so to speak at others…

      But thats the gist of what is happening , if you try to think , they send you out.We have to learn and go on…for it is about us and not them…yes but as long as we are here there will always be a side thats willing to take on them right kiddo?
      though people this kiddo is an ancient philosopher in disguise 😀

      keep thinking Vishesh 🙂 you bring in fresh lines and a fresh perspective

      • April 10, 2009 5:25 am

        lol 😛 I think i will post this 😉 And it is nice to know so many people read all the comments(I do it when I have time,but its a premium right now)..

        • April 10, 2009 6:45 am

          yep they do read including me at all the places I visit which is why when you have more time do leave your thoughts more often at the places you visit ……for, who knows what will touch or have an effect on someone and where? 🙂

  20. April 9, 2009 4:59 am

    very clear post…
    But, I just can’t seem to see where we are heading as a nation…
    the tolerance levels seem to be coming down…

    • Indyeah permalink*
      April 9, 2009 8:53 pm

      thanks Pixie ..its not just the tolerance levels its the injustice that has been the lot of some people who are still waiting for nyay or justice after25+ years..

      and the political parties are hitting a new low each day 😦

  21. April 9, 2009 6:00 am

    Read your alert but even then persisted. Your post was gripping and factual. You have put in a lot of facts to prove that every party in India is pseudo secular. Agree with you, secularism in its purest, or even 18 carat form, does not exist in India and will never exist too (I am sticking my neck out on this). I donot think any of our politicians or parties can rise, or are capable of rising, above the ‘divide to get elected’ on whatever basis, caste, religion, language, or whatever else we differ on. So truly secular is out completely.

    It was Gandhiji who could unite our diverse people to achieve independence and the reason was that he appealed to the people with a unifying thought – a thought of swaraj for everyone, irrespective of differences of birth or belief. Gandhi ji was deeply religious but his worldly actions were not dictated by his religion. Religion gave him a purpose beyond himself, for common good. Politics without religion would be soulless, and we definitely don’t want that, but then we donot want pseudo secularism too. Religion only for rituals or a sense of belonging is not religion in the true sense, I believe, but most of us and so also our leaders believe only in this. Like some one said in an earlier comment, our leaders are but only a reflection of us, the people.

    We have a paucity of leaders like Gandhiji with a vision in our present generation of politicians – a visionary who would be able to unite people to take India on a trajectory that it truly deserves – not necessarily in the material world though. I believe such a leader would emerge out of this ‘manthan’ that is taking place and some committed and passionate person would emerge, ek din, mann mein hai vishwas. The good news is that we need only one leader of this kind……and one out of a possible 1.1 billion is no big deal, I believe… it will happen. Warning – I am a born optimist.

    • April 9, 2009 9:40 am

      Joshi Saab, We have many good leaders ( they are still nameless ) but we fail to recognise them in our communities and our organizations. People all over the world get inspired by the mahatama so did Barack Obama — whose campaign words were inspired by gandhi. We indians have made Gandhi a statue! — that is the problem.

      Mohandas Karamchand is there everywhere ( metaphorically i mean ) ( when he was thrown out of the train) in india, but the problem with us indians we want to know every leaders pedigree first ?!! and that is the shameful expectation we Indians have !

      On another note – for the current india — we need the subhash chandra bose who did not agree with gandhi on many counts and went and did what he thought was best “azad hind sena …and paved the way for freedom.

      Vallabhai Patel’s love for the country made him take a back seat otherwise he should have been the first prime minister of india.

      Tilak and Gokhale did their part too and so did so many NAMELESS indians.

      there are so many “bhagat singhs ” ( idealistic indians ) but they are some where — unknown where people mock and ridicule him for his/her indian ness . He/she is where no bus and no train in india. Think our very shastri ji..

      — all this purely in the spirit of a good discussion. your post made me think. so thanks and indyeah you too..for the fabulous post.

      • Indyeah permalink*
        April 9, 2009 10:49 pm

        We indians have made Gandhi a statue! — that is the problem.
        Brilliant Anrosh! Thats all we have reduced the great man to!

        yes we are rather obsessed with pedigree arent we?

        your comment was great Anrosh..and all the references to some awesome leaders made me think about a tag that Kislay had given me….What my vision of an Indian leader is…will do that sometime later..dp pick it up if you would like to Anrosh:)

        • April 10, 2009 12:45 am

          my vision for an indian leader — i have written this on the blog India Retold –as a comment ! something very similar to what i have written here — i don’t remember what post that was and it was a long time ago. does google have the ability to search all the comments that one has written on a blog — it would be wonderul –if i get it i will put it up on my blog…

          thanks
          an.

          me-would love to read it for sure An 🙂
          I am not sure such a facility exists..but yeah would love to read it whenever you do put it up 🙂

    • Indyeah permalink*
      April 9, 2009 9:23 pm

      JP Sir..So truly secular is out completely.
      Yes, even I think so..India’s fabric has become such (or maybe it always has been) that its very hard to keep religion out of the national arena..and religion and politics the way our politicians combine them is a lethal combination…

      Gandhi ji was deeply religious but his worldly actions were not dictated by his religion. Religion gave him a purpose beyond himself, for common good. Politics without religion would be soulless, and we definitely don’t want that, but then we donot want pseudo secularism too. yes one one the main reasons why I admire the Mahatma too
      ,,he believed that religion needed to be a part of politics but his vision was different..our politicians have made religion a part of politics and made it soulless

      Religion only for rituals or a sense of belonging is not religion in the true sense, I believe, but most of us and so also our leaders believe only in this. Like some one said in an earlier comment, our leaders are but only a reflection of us, the people. yes thats very very true,…

      I believe such a leader would emerge out of this ‘manthan’ that is taking place and some committed and passionate person would emerge, ek din, mann mein hai vishwas. The good news is that we need only one leader of this kind……and one out of a possible 1.1 billion is no big deal, I believe… it will happen. Warning – I am a born optimist.

      thank you for those positive words sir..they give me hope..for, I am a born optimist too 🙂

      I really hope that a leader does emerge, one who unites India as a whole and refuses to look at anything less than India…no community, no caste, no religion..nothing..
      .India it will be..first and foremost and the only thing

      your words have been really positive 🙂 thanks

    • Indian Homemaker permalink
      April 10, 2009 4:44 am

      Brilliant post Indyeah. Loved the research – your trademark 🙂

      Thanks for all the information too.

      I agree that no party is really secular, they all want votes, I just wish they won’t kill us for our votes. And I agree with a comment above, we are who we vote for – we choose, we really do choose between the bad and the worse…. and if we continue to make the right choices(between the devil and the deep blue.. no red sea), we still have hope.

      me-thank you so much IHM 🙂
      yes we are whom we vote for..which is why I still cant digest why Gujarat voted for him? 😦
      no development in the world can make up for the carnage 😦

  22. April 9, 2009 8:27 am

    I thank you a million times for this brilliant piece . These thoughts are my own, but neither in this life, nor in the next 6 , would I have been able to coherently articulate , and yet kick some serious ass, without using a single expletive . So I bow before thee, O great Indyeah . Thank you for calling a spade, a spade .

    “So please before getting all horrified when someone calls Congress and BJP two sides of the same coin….keep in mind the history of this most farcical party in India.”

    I have been saying this for ages, and I think most people thought of me as a communal fool . There was this article in TOI, after SDM won its 8 Oscars, that the Congree claimed that as a part of its achievement. And almost unanimously, most of th 106 or so comments there , agreed . And why ? Because they were the ones ruling this nation for the better part of 61 years, and who else but them could stake a claim on a movie depicting slums and poverty ?

    “NO I am not a Sikh. But I am an Indian.
    My heart does not bleed on the basis of community or religion but simply becasue another Indian had to see gruesome horrors because of who ‘they’ thought he/she was.”

    Agreed . But for me , there is one more reason . Sikhs have been one of the most patriotic of all communities in India, pre and post independence . They have never shied away from laying down their lives for the Motherland . That is one more reason why my heart bleeds for them .

    • Indyeah permalink*
      April 9, 2009 9:38 pm

      Thanks a lot Kislay for those awesome words of praise..
      simply delighted 😀
      seriously, thank you 🙂

      There was this article in TOI, after SDM won its 8 Oscars, that the Congree claimed that as a part of its achievement. And almost unanimously, most of th 106 or so comments there , agreed . And why ? Because they were the ones ruling this nation for the better part of 61 years, and who else but them could stake a claim on a movie depicting slums and poverty ?

      Brilliant dude!that was sarcasm at its best! 😆

      yes completely agree I have never seen Sikhs give anything less than their best..and it always amazes me as to how after the insurgency things quickly went back to normal in Punjab…had it been any other state I am dead sure it would gave taken ages to simmer down…

      having lkived in Delhi I have seen the courage, the jovial side, the fun loving side of this community,,,the way they are the first ones to volunteer for anything…makes me wish that I too was a Sikh at times 🙂 and so many of them are in the defence forces too since generations infact!

      yes they need justice and damn desperately…and yet do see Kislay about how many bloggers(including me)even thought of writing about them…we were too busy with Gujarat and Hindutva and Modi..which ofcourse are really important issues too…but we forgot the victims of a carnage thats 25+years old…how could we??

      😦

      And I am so damn happy no make that ecstatic that the B###### will not be able to contest! and look at the hypocrisy of the party!The Congress apparently only understands when a shoe is thrown!

      More shoes are needed!so that these morons wake up..

      • April 9, 2009 11:43 pm

        You deserve every bit of that praise . Anyways, if you saw the news , one more shoe-throwing incident . Naveen Chawla of Congress had it from a school teacher . Congree ki Juton se “Jay Ho” rahi hai . 😀

        me- 😆 @Congress ki juton se jai ho rahi hai 😀
        yeah toh trailer hai it seems now.. 😀 who knows how many more are coming their way? 😀

        • April 10, 2009 2:05 am

          I have a crazy idea . Somewhat on the lines of the PCC campaign . To protest against Congress’s pseudo-secular attitude, and the dynasticism , we can launcg a Stinky Shoe Campaign . We can all send our old and useless shoes, after ensuring that they stink as well , to the great leaders of Congress , as a mark of the contempt we have for some of them . If it is a hit, we can extend it to the other Political Parties, as well . What say ? 😀

          • April 10, 2009 3:33 am

            kislay, “stinky shoe campaign” is befitting. — That is exactly the PR we need.

          • April 10, 2009 6:31 am

            Great idea Kislay! 😀
            and I think Modi should get the first batch and ofcourse Sajjan Kumar and Tytler

          • April 10, 2009 7:15 am

            Tell me where do we send it. Congress started it all so it deserves the first batch.

            me-I say lets send it to Sonia aunty’s residence 😀

          • April 10, 2009 8:07 am

            Hell yeah . But you know what, the kind of media we have, this will not get as much exposure as the actual PCC .

            me-yup!Thats pretty true ..and I think some Sikh groups in Delhi have laready sent 10 pairs of shoes to Sonia G’s residence 😀

          • April 10, 2009 4:35 pm

            that’s what i thought too after seeing the Jai Ho ad that you said and reading kislay’s comment —

          • April 10, 2009 6:47 pm

            You guys are right. Stinky shoes won’t make the news. Our “unbiased” media won’t give it any importance just like how it put Priyanka Gandhi’s FIL’s suicide under the carpet on Sonia Ma’am request. Why is everyone in Vadra family commiting suicide?

            me-yeah Solilo..our ”unbiased media” is the jewel in the crown of India’s democracy…so unbiased they are poor fellows…tsk tsk and people criticise them without any reason…bad Solilo! :DDo you know how much of a slavish mentality not toi mention the free lunches and dinners one has to have to be THAT unbiased?? 😀
            as for Sonia AUnty’s request…the question again arises ..ye hain kaun??who is she to request or not request,….? and yet do see the dance of power..amazing to watch this circus is dear friend 😀

          • April 10, 2009 7:46 pm

            There goes my idea for the Stinky Shoe Campaign down the drain . 😦 What gets my goat is that how the hell do these 3 or 4 English news channels end up making more noise, and exert a greater influence as compared to their Indian-language counterparts ? It seems as if they are the ones who create the most ruckus , and get the most attention . Is it because the English is the de-facto language of the urban middle class and the ruling classes, the ones who have a say? It is even more shameful , the voices and opinions of the non-English speaking masses are lost amidst the babble of Sarkha,Turdesai and Sadi-garika of the MSM .

            me-you gave the answer Kislay Is it because the English is the de-facto language of the urban middle class and the ruling classes, the ones who have a say?
            yes to an extent this is the main problem

          • April 11, 2009 7:41 am

            kislay… no your idea does not go down the drain. — we just have to organize.. I talked about your idea to 2-3 friends of mine and they said it was brillant ( they do not blog )— ORGANIZATION is the key — Sending a shoe to congress babes and babas young and old — — we can start with a banner — Shoe for congress – with a picture — — please do not put your names and addressess — we can work out the details —

          • April 11, 2009 7:44 am

            Kislay – your idea does not go done the drain. Organization is key — identifying the stakeholders — action plan, logistics etc etc.

  23. Quirky Indian permalink
    April 9, 2009 8:12 pm

    Interesting post, Indyeah. But aren’t we all guilty of double standards? Especially the media and all of us who blog and twitter. We ignore 1984. We ignore the Taslima incident. We ignore the fact that a Union Minister has openly challenged the police to arrest him, if they dare, in Patna. I can only imagine the millions of posts, newspaper columns and sound-bytes on TV that would have been generated, and the self-righteous sense of outrage that we would all proudly wear as a badge, if the same had been said by a member of the BJP. And where does this all lead us? It leads to a further hardening of stances, it leads to more polarisation.

    If we truly believe in secularism, all kinds of fanaticism and communalism – majority and minority, whether fuelled by the Congress, the BJP, the Left, the Muslim League or anyone else – should be condemned and dealt with in the same manner. If we don’t, and that’s what’s been unfortunately happening, you give the aggressor the chance to gain legitimacy as a victim.

    We don’t do that. We are quick to condemn incidents involving Hindu fanatics or the BJP. But we seek excuses and justifications when it comes to applying the same yardstick to fanatics of other religions, the Congress, SP, the Left or anyone else. This can never work in the long run, and unless we adopt a consistent stand, we are doing ourselves and our country great harm.

    Bottomline: Every incident of communalism and fanaticism has to be dealt with in the same manner. If someone breaks the law, he should be dealt with by the book, and without fear, favour of prejudice – whether it is a Hindu or Muslim, a Congressman, a Union Minister and ally, or a member of the BJP, or any other party.

    Quirky Indian

    PS: I tried hard to write a long comment; such a long post deserves a long comment! 🙂

    • Indyeah permalink*
      April 9, 2009 9:52 pm

      Thanks QI
      yeah you are absolutely right!
      We ARE guilty of double standards for sure…and a very myopic vision thats our biggest weakness..we blog and discuss today’s events forgetting that if the perpetrators of the past ones dont get punished then these incidents will keep happening..over and over again…

      The Congress …ah!..please do notice how many bloggers actually talk about them…we are too busy with Hindutva and BJP it seems..as if there is only one evil in India…there are so many of them why not castigate them equally?

      oh yes the Union Minister!Yes does show our hypocrisy doesnt it?as a society? 😦

      yes had a member of the BJP said it, reams would have been devoted to discussing it..
      thats the exact point that I have discussed previously on other blogs about how the mainstream media and even we here suffer from selective amnesia…

      We don’t do that. We are quick to condemn incidents involving Hindu fanatics or the BJP. But we seek excuses and justifications when it comes to applying the same yardstick to fanatics of other religions, the Congress, SP, the Left or anyone else. This can never work in the long run, and unless we adopt a consistent stand, we are doing ourselves and our country great harm.

      Bottomline: Every incident of communalism and fanaticism has to be dealt with in the same manner. If someone breaks the law, he should be dealt with by the book, and without fear, favour of prejudice – whether it is a Hindu or Muslim, a Congressman, a Union Minister and ally, or a member of the BJP, or any other party.

      you have said it all and muhc more coherently than I could..so thank you so much

      yes, and this makes my resolve stronger that this blog will talk of not just Hindutva and its evils and the BJP but that whenever I write, it will also be about the Congress and the otehr parties…

      you see QI..as a friend said nothing makes our leaning more evident than a discussion on politics in India..and its just what I have noticed too..if one sees a blogger bashing up Hindutva and BJP well thats all well and good but is he/she bashing up Congress and any otehr party equally?or is it selective criticism all over again??it doesnt mean that we have to absolutely balanced or anything or thatwe have to blog about every thing in India..it simply says that lets have a little perspective please…so thank you for saying all that you have said here

      SO yes keep your eyes peeled (I am sure you already do :D) I mean those awesome posts do come from somewhere dont they?:D

      LOL@”PS: I tried hard to write a long comment; such a long post deserves a long comment!”

      😆
      yayY! QI has commented and so generously too 😀
      You and Vishesh are going up right there in my hall of fame 😉

      • April 10, 2009 9:04 am

        Exactly. We all are up in arms to send Pink Chaddis and what not but one shoe incident and we dissect and sympathize with oh so poor PC.

        PC here is not a person but a Home Minister who kept quiet just like his predecessor who was sleeping while 26/11 happened. The predecessor Shuvraj Patil had even lost elections.

        You know what? When I see the hypocrisy of some people who support Congress no matter what, it forces me to join the other side. After all there should be balance between both devils.

        • April 13, 2009 4:45 pm

          I agree Solilo..Why all this naatak over one darn shoe?Coz it was thrown at a Congress fellow?Like you said it was not for the person but for the Home Minister…and look at all that a joota has done!
          more shoes should be thrown …if it results in such hurried decisions to cancel tickets…Apparently the Congress understands jooton ki bhasha 😀

          Yes this sheer hypocrisy makes me fume too!

  24. April 10, 2009 9:01 am

    Whether you kill one person or 100 the outcome is same. Congress for long ruled and ruined our country and sadly people still can’t see through their politics just because they aren’t blatant. There is no lesser evil. There are only devils.

    I will laugh at anyone who considers Congress a lesser evil. Seriously! the party which massacred innocent3000+ Sikhs is lesser evil? Lesser of what? How many more should have been killed? Ask Sikhs and they will tell you what it feels like. Just like Minorities hate BJP and they have every right to Sikhs hate Congress too. Rajiv Gandhi equated 1984 to Bada ped 😀 What a sick analogy! And apology after so many years?

    Sadly! politics is a joking matter now. As always people will vote for the party which benefits them.

  25. April 10, 2009 9:09 am

    “you see QI..as a friend said nothing makes our leaning more evident than a discussion on politics in India..and its just what I have noticed too..if one sees a blogger bashing up Hindutva and BJP well thats all well and good but is he/she bashing up Congress and any otehr party equally?or is it selective criticism all over again??it doesnt mean that we have to absolutely balanced or anything or thatwe have to blog about every thing in India..it simply says that lets have a little perspective please…so thank you for saying all that you have said here”

    Is that friend moi? 😀

    I told you that you can see through the facade a person puts from their views on Indian politics.

    From what I have seen and read on your blog, you always comes out as a balanced individual who posts impartial views on each party and their politics and the comments generated here are worth reading.

    Thank you Abhi for this discussion. I have learned so much from the research here and also the comments.

    me-yep!the friend is you O’ gyaan ka bhandaar 😆
    thank you Solilo 😀 and yeah have noticed exaclty that..I mean political leanings say so much dont they? Thank you for the encouragement dear friend 😀 (((hugs)))

  26. April 10, 2009 9:13 am

    When I made a post on Madani many actually tried to justify it and others simply ignored that fact and brought Varun Gandhi and Hindutva instead. This is what happens. People are too busy scoring some kind of Brownie points by bashing Hindutva are trying to be “secular” but have zilch guts to even criticize terrrorists like Madani who supports CPI-M and parties like Congress which have thrived on divisive politics.

    me-Solilo, There will come a day when in this scramble to bash up Hindutva(as it should be bashed for sure) people will not be able to see the ‘bigger’ evils till they are almost on top of their head…and by then it will be too damn late…

    Agree with you on the zero guts of people to take on anything and I mean ANYTHING other than Hindutva…QI has said it best…whoever they are whatever they may be, criticise them equally and I say bash up The ####### equally!

    • Solilo permalink
      April 11, 2009 6:27 pm

      Let my comment be the 100th and it will be a century then. 😀

      Sadly! it is a fashion to bash up anything remotedly connected to Hinduism and term it as Hindutva but teaming up with minority is called being secular.

      On one hand we talk about equality and then go on and reserve seats for backward class which includes even the ones who are well off whereas poor Brahmins and economically poor upper caste are shown doors. Talk about hypocrisy and double standards!

      I can’t forgive VP Singh for Mandal Commission and I am glad no one mourned his death during 26/11.

      me-yipee!!100th comment 😀 century ho gayi! 😉

      Sadly! it is a fashion to bash up anything remotedly connected to Hinduism and term it as Hindutva but teaming up with minority is called being secular.
      Exactly!
      and yes, this poverty aspect should be the one that should be looked at rather than caste religion and other such rubbish!
      Solilo the damn hypocrisy!the sheer bloody hypocrisy makes me fume!!

      if being a BJP supporter makes someone a Hindutva fundamentalist acc to some ppl then let me extend the courtesy further and say that all Congress supporters can then be called pseudo seculars…(applicable only for those who think BJP supporters are fundamentalists in guise)

      BJP or Congress both are BS parties like someone here said!and if BJP is one then by god, the Congress is one too!

      one wonders how long it will take Congress holier than thou supporters to understand this 😀

      oh and also I was really happy when he died and no one mourned coz India and Indians had more important things to worry about than some idiotic old man who left India divided!like they say there is justice in this world

    • April 12, 2009 8:13 am

      I used almost the same language in one of my posts . Brownie points – secular – India bashing. 🙂

      me-link please dear friend 😀
      would love to read it 😀

  27. April 10, 2009 7:52 pm

    Rightly said. If you look deep enuff, then they r all the same; of course exceptions aside :).
    On a different note, by the time one gets to your post, there are already a million comments and the discussion in comments become longer than ur posts. Very lively place ur blog is :).

    me-yeah they are ..:( one wonders whom to vote for?

    Thanks 😀 yeah and now with the shift to WP..it has become more fun to comment :DLOL@comments become longer than your posts 😀thank you

  28. April 10, 2009 9:34 pm

    Indy, I had to read this post at one sitting not in parts and thus the delay… Awesome post Indy. Someone had earlier commented that its amazing how you dig your teeth deep into whatever you write about. Completely agree 🙂

    And I also agree that the Congress is equally responsible for the divides in India today. What irks me the most is how India treats Sonia and Rahul as the Queen and the Prince.

    Not only this, most of the leaders in Congress have come through family rather than social service / public work. The Scindias, the Pilots and a lot of others who we think are a symbol of the Youth in the Congress are actually products of the Dynasty mentality. But again, I’m not complaining out loud because these appear to be better and well educated than their counterparts.

    Agreed, Congress has a lot of issues as well. But all said and done, if you ask me today, I’d still vote for the Congress at the centre because it is a lesser evil. I guess this post puts my feelings in words better than anyone ever could –

    http://indiauncut.com/iublog/article/what-jagdish-tytler-and-sajjan-kumar-tell-us-about-the-congress-party/

    me-thanks a lot Dude! 😀 I mean seriously 🙂
    appreciate all the words :))
    What irks me the most is how India treats Sonia and Rahul as the Queen and the Prince.
    yup!irks me the most too!
    and yeah dynasty politics is Congress ki den hai

    yeah a lot of issues for sure this party has

    yup uncanny!read his post in the morning too 🙂
    and like Amit said on his blog
    And ya, it burns me up that I need to decide who I support on the basis of who is less dangerous. That totally sucks, but such it is, so there we go.

    yes the key term being dangerous here…so for you or for me or for Amit the COngress might seem less dangerous…but for a Sikh the Congress IS the MOST dangerous…so it all depends on who is looking at it and how!
    I mean the BJP doesnt get all those votes out of thin air right?A lot of people must be voting for them…

    In my opinion the Congress is more dangerous Rakesh because this is a party which stands by ..simply stands and watches while India burns…that in my book is more heinous a crime than even the ones who did commit the crime…I mean of what use are such parties and such governments if they are at best going to be impotent and nothing else!?

    I think the key lies in making this moronic party realise that just because there is another villain in the picture you are not going to get our vote for doing nothing!you will get our vote WHEN and IF you do something proactive..for a change..that is the only way the Congress can wake up…
    otherwise it will fumble along somehow impotent and unable to prevent incidents from happening and yet content in the belief that just because there are those who hate the BJP ….hence it will always get votes rest assured…this attitude of this khaandaan is what we have to change…

  29. April 11, 2009 1:53 am

    Indy, to put Amit’s post in perspective, I think what he means is that the Congress doesn’t fail to take advantage of the communal divide but it doesn’t intentionally create it.

    The BJP on the other hand intentionaly creates this divide so it can benefit from it. It tends to wake up the Hindu in each one of us who then has to hate the Muslim and accordingly vote for them.

    I agree that for the Sikhs, Congress might be the dangerous party but then, again, Congress withdrew the nominations of the two accused but BJP says, it stands besides Varun Gandhi for spreading hatred. Though it is a bit too late but if Congress is willing to agree that 1984 was wrong and shouldn’t have happened, I’m willing to give them the benefit of doubt. And that’s because in the larger context of things, we have to choose and bring to power a party who can cause the minimum damage.

    I’m sure in a few years, if Modi accepts that it was his government’s responsibility to protect the minority community during 2002 and his government failed to do so, a lot of people will start forgetting and Modi might turn out to be viewed as an able leader. You and I both know public memory is short.

    Similarly, if we are devoid of choice as in today’s scenario, I guess, Congress is still the better option.

    me-yes true Rakesh…which is why I wont give my vote to either of them…BJP is not getting it for sure….about the Congress I am not sure

    And that’s because in the larger context of things, we have to choose and bring to power a party who can cause the minimum damage.

    I know and I agree and yet somewhere there is a huge violent rebellion inside me when I think that this is what India has come to…to choose between two such parties
    😦 😦

    and yes really true that public memory is short and that if Modi were to accept (will he too take 25 years to atone? ) his failure in protecting the people in Gujarat then yes people and India might start viewing him as an able leader…but I still will consider him a ######## !!

    I know you are right Rakesh..you have explained it so coolly and calmly and yes we do need to vote for someone dont we?
    And yet just the thought of voting for any of the BJP?Congress people makes me want to gag…as does the prospect of voting for Modi a few years down the line..
    😦

    what kind of a nation am I living in?which India is this? I try to remember the dozens of unity in diversity songs that I have grown up listening to…you know the mile sur mera tumhara and baje sargam and many others…its almost a physical pain by now….

    • RGB permalink
      April 12, 2009 11:16 am

      The Congress does nothing to bridge communal divide. It has always treated Muslims as minorities and tried to reap vote benefits.

      Congress has carried caste based divisive politics for a long time. It also creates divisions with subtleness like giving tacit support to Shiv Sena in the 60’s , Bhindranwale in the 70’s or to Raj Thackeray now.

      me-Yes the Congress ahs not actively tried to stop riots nor has ot had any greater good in mind when it talks of minorities and others…
      if it actually ensured that the rservations benefitted those whom they were meant for then it would lose its votebank wouldnt it?

      so the best Congress niti is to let BJP burn the country then the Congress will come and console the victims after having watched from the sidelines

      people talk of 84 and try to pass it off and forget that during the riots in bombay it was a Congress govt that sat impotently!
      Of what use is such a govt?
      yes most of independent India’s history this party has been in power and yet it has the sheer guts to blame others for the state of affairs…absurd!
      yes we know who is the otehr villain?but what was the Congress doing when the ‘other’s were burning the nation?
      watching gleefully?having set the initial fire?

  30. Winnie the poohi permalink
    April 11, 2009 6:34 am

    The thing is the word secular and all other words that we use in constitution has never been written for India and We indians have no relevance or understanding of those concept..

    We say freedom of speech and yet can never let someone speak against the “family” forget the society and the government!

    Nor do we know what democracy is.. Coz we never thought about it… we simply inherited it 🙂

    Nor do we know what equality is! We say all men are equal and then give reservations? LOL!

    Its nothing but a mockery!

    me-LOL!Winnie you said it all! 😀
    Amaizng isnt it? that we have no understanding of these precious words and yet we throw them around ?
    LOL@reservations!!Awesome dear girl awesome! I remember your posts and my comments too 😀
    yeah try telling that to those who think reservations on the basis of catse or religion are fine coz they ‘help’ India progress 😉
    we aint fit for most of the things you mentioned but still we celebrate this circus called democracy every five years! 😀

    • April 13, 2009 4:58 am

      You know I read in today’s news paper.. that in IIT’s more reservations are being planned even before writing the papers.. these ppl make mockery of “merit 😡

      me:-yes Winnie I read it and was horrified..every community everyone is going to start clamouring for them and none of the jobs/educational sectors will be left untouched…:(
      this is going to divide India one day…and the signs are already there..
      Did you read politicians even want reservations in the army!!defence forces will not be spared too!
      Bloody ######I wanted to murder someone when I read that!

      • April 13, 2009 11:17 am

        The only option that would remain then would be to move out! I mean who would wanna live in such a divided society?

        How will it improve anything?

        I dont understand why no one talks about providing books for so many municipal schools..

        So many anganwadis are non functional.. no one bothers to ask why!
        If you go to many government schools the teachers dont even come to office and get regular pay.. and the kids play in the class ( I know it for a fact coz my mom was teaching there and had a hard time )

        Why is it that beautiful ideas of AID India for educational reforms ( As implemented in TN) never scaled to large scale?

        There is so much one can do if one wishes for it.. esp in the Government.. even if one hogs money.. even in 5 % of it is utilized properly.. things can change.. but no one is bothered…

        You asked many times why modi was chosen.. simply coz he delivered what he promised.. and thats more than most politicians can boast of in their 30 -50 year stint in politics!

        me-:(
        yes the other option seems to be the only one left for some of us..

        we dont have reservations do we?

        ah!the ironies Winnnie the ironies…they will never talk about the issues..they will not talk about AID India or about how Aanganwadis dont function properly cz that wont make good copy…

        awesome that yoou answered the Modi question!you see…had I answered it I would have been branded a fundamentalist or something along those lines…now you..you answered it and quite honestly too 🙂
        thank you:)

  31. Winnie the poohi permalink
    April 11, 2009 6:38 am

    Ah I was reading Train to Pakistan by khushwant singh.. it had this quote by a local (village) guy who said what does freedom mean to us? The jobs that british have made empty by leaving would be taken over by educated indians.. and we would be slave of educated indians as we were of british.. what does freedom means to us?

    How true! Only its not educated indians… but bullshit party who have taken over.. which includes most of the politicians!

    me-yep! BS parties they are!
    and yet we somehow hope against hope that they will ‘deliver’ us from all ‘evil’ when the truth is they are the evil..
    yeah kind of remember the lines though not clearly…

    the educated Indians have been thrown out or as Vishesh says told to go out because reservations lead to reverse discrimination
    and those who are incharge of reservations wont even let atleast those take some benefits of reservations for whom it was intended in the first place..

    .lose lose situation all around .. 😦

    life in India sucks bigtime sometimes you know..

    • April 13, 2009 5:01 am

      Yep! You know the saddest part is? No one… not even who benifits and not even who doesnt is ready to fight against it.. again we are being ruled by a fraction of the multitudinous population!

      As they say tyranny can only survive if there is some “victim” Seems like we all have agreed to victimize.. but then “pain” and “sacrifice” and “forbearance” has been given so much importance in our religion that how can we be some other way ?

      me-Winnie in my entire life I have never and I mean NEVER come across someone who benefits from reservations and opposes it…as long as they get the benefits they dont give a damn how the benefits are coming or how they will divide India…

      the ones who dont benefit dont oppose it but keep mouthing platitudes about how some ppl ‘need’ it…and I was one of them..now I am just getting tired of the same old crappy excuses again and again

      religion is just lot of nonsense!religion never benefitted anyone neither have I ever witnessed or even read about how a large community has turned into peaceful peopel after turning religious or after following religion in a ‘true manner…just doesnt happen that way!
      except for a few gurus and mahatmas no one changes..if anything people turn even more bestial because of religion…

      • April 13, 2009 11:36 am

        Religion is and always will be a personal issue and can never be collectively satisfying! **sigh**

        @ benefit.. you know thats why we need a leader.. not everyone can look beyond immediate gains..

        My point is.. no one ever gains from reservation.. if I get cashewnuts everyday I wont feel its special at all.. but If someone who never had it gets it.. he will feel like he is in 7th heaven.. thats just it.. nowadays.. ppl accept reservations as their right.. and not as an opportunity to grow!

        Also, this reservation is a subtle way of still emphasizing that yes you are still something less than me and hence you need a handicap.. this way you are cuckolding one entire generation.. a generation who doesnt know what it is to be an untouchable.. by revisiting the same thing again and again.. you are re-emphasizing the same thing

        Simply… No one really progresses unless the reward is provided.. thats why ranking systems are there .. if concession is given.. why would ppl progress?

        me-Also, this reservation is a subtle way of still emphasizing that yes you are still something less than me and hence you need a handicap.. this way you are cuckolding one entire generation.. a generation who doesnt know what it is to be an untouchable.. by revisiting the same thing again and again.. you are re-emphasizing the same thing
        You have said it so clearly and coherently Winnie!
        Reservations will never NEVER blur lines/divides of caste/religion or any other..never!not in a million lifetimes!

        India is already on the path to self destruction and beinga divided nation…if anyone in the world needs lessons on how to commit suicide they had better come to India and ask how!

  32. April 11, 2009 9:56 am

    India treats Sonia and Rahul as the ultimatum. What is next? Political freedom is to blame! We are to blame, right? Agreed, they are what we cherish but at what what cost?

    When are we we to get qualified politicians? Hmm, looks like never!!

    me-true Biju 😦
    doesnt look promising does it? 😦
    we are to blame for a lot of things too …

  33. April 11, 2009 6:26 pm

    Btw, Indy, one thing on which the BJP agrees with you is Reservations based on economic conditions and not on caste. So you see, no one is completely black or white. Neither the Congress, nor the BJP and that what gives me hope 🙂

    me-yeah Rakesh that is one point that gives me hope too …no one is black or white …and thats amazing of you to keep your mind so open 🙂

    see despite the fact that you prefer the Congress over the BJP you also acknowledge that the Congress has its own faults and quite huge ones at that….

    you dont bristle at the mere suggestion that Congress and The BJP are two sides of the same coin…
    this is the aspect that irks me like nothing else in other Congress supporters

  34. Mystery permalink
    April 11, 2009 7:43 pm

    Hi Indyeah,
    First time here. liked the post very much.
    Will visit regularly form now on.

    me-thank you so much Mystery 🙂
    Hope to see you here more often like you said 🙂

  35. April 12, 2009 8:37 am

    A very well written post Indyeah… a very very long one too… 🙂
    The point is that there is nothing called secularism in India.. We have different yardsticks for different religions… there is no need for minority tag in this country… after declaring everybody were equal we don’t need it..
    No need for reservations too.. As you have said reservations are brought for some other reasons.. but our politicians has made into an election material.. do you know one thing.. Indian government allows only 50% for reservation… But in TN it is 69% and these political parties striving hard to implement them in all ways… If they were really interested means they can train those students of economically backward students and make them qualify for the higher educational institutes and professional jobs.. another solution is also there.. announce every community as SC/ST and put all the seats under reservation… actually every community needs to get a lower berth.. we can give it to everybody bring about the equality we are talking about 🙂
    And congress… a party which has made the democratic system to collapse in this country.. if the politicians are money driven… congress party is Gandhi driven.. they can’t do anything without somebody from Gandhi family was present there.. 😡 Indira Gandhi was the one who made our democratic system to rot, by (s)electing the officials and leaders of the party and that disease was not cured but passed on to other parties like BSP, ADMK, DMK and all regional parties.
    And I thought Rahul Gandhi as a sensible person.. but the way he spoke on Babri-Masjid issue makes me wonder whether he is a leader material… until one can’t accept his cons and defeats he or she can’t be a good leader 😦
    And I have lost all my hope on our political parties… all we need is new leadership with young and spirited minds at the helm… They know waht is mean by secular… these parties will tie up christian and muslim organisations and will say we are secular…. 😆

    • April 13, 2009 8:37 am

      LOL@very very long post 😀

      there is no need for minority tag in this country… after declaring everybody were equal we don’t need it..
      you have said it so simply and nicely Kanagu..why cant the damn parties understand this?:(

      I agree on the Congress and on Indira Gandhi…the moment we put individuals on pedestals and let t#hem think that its their right to ‘rule ‘ us then we are in for some big trouble…I see India going the same way in the case of rahul gandhi too…
      What qualifications does he have for christsake?

      yes Kanagu I heard about the 69 percent reservation just a few months back and was horrified!what is going on in India?were are we going with these divisive policies that make us aware of our identity not as an Indian but as a caste religion or any other person???

      rahul gandhi is weird and plain dumb!and has no idea of any realities in India…and yet do see how all the drawing room conversations in India revolve around Rahul baba
      plain weird!

      these parties will tie up christian and muslim organisations and will say we are secular…. 😆
      exactly!I feel like laughing when I hear the word secularism in India..

  36. RGB permalink
    April 12, 2009 11:04 am

    Brilliant post. It is a myth that Congress or any of its allies are secular. Divisive politics on the basis of caste or race is equally harmful as that based on religion.

    me:-Thank you so much
    yes, be it any political party in India today, all of them are just out to get votes through any means possible…I agree dividive politics is harmful be it religion, caste, or any other…
    and Congress is in the same boat as so many others…it should either set its house in order or stop pretending…sadly with the gandhi khandaan at the helm, the setting in order def isnt going to happen

  37. April 12, 2009 7:15 pm

    exhaustive post this…In India’s ‘Animal Farm’ too there are some who are more more equal than others. In both appeasement and discrimination we are a ages ahead.

    You say Delhi riots and the other points at Gujarat. As if justice lies in the heinous acts committed by both and not in the punishment. Nobody is absolved of the crimes – the politicians and the people. What the politicians are cleverly manipulating is our own deep seated divisions on the basis of – caste, language, religion, education etc

    The current Gandhi’s will increasingly have to prove themselves in the world of politics…although I agree the process should have started decades ago. Babudom, red tapism the worst still persists in the Congress heirarchy.

    The Indian voter is indeed between the devil and the deep blue sea.

    me-:( does remind one of Orwell and the book doesnt it? all the mayhem today 😦

    you said it!You say Delhi riots and the other points at Gujarat. As if justice lies in the heinous acts committed by both and not in the punishment.
    exactly!!I mean till when are we going to keep counting the dead and see who has a higher number?and therefore is the bigger villain!How?how in god’s name does that make sense??

    This is so gloomy a picture..a picture in which humanity is nowhere to be found…because if it were, then we woudnt be judging the ‘good’ by how many less they had killed than the ‘other’

    The Gandhis…amazing nation this…even more amazing are its peopel who follow this khaandaan…and Behen Priyanka’s statement sounds so absurd when one thinks about it…I mean the way she says it it sounds like a given that the rajgaddi is waiiting for the prince!

    This is what makes me mad!

    yes, we are between the two:(

  38. Chirag Chamoli permalink
    April 12, 2009 7:40 pm

    Dude, Congress stands on the false pretense, illusion of rationalism and equality.
    No what troubles me as an Indian and I shiver to is…We don’t have any representation of people. The trouble is the whole thing is run by people/parties, who couldn’t care less. The problem is our embedded narrow mentality and approach to problems at each level as QI said we are double standards certified people. In the current India you can never be two free, and why should 1984 be forgotten?

    We(Congress/BJP) are secular only on the bloody paper and when it comes to be tolerant to others value system we suck at that.

    Secularism will not mean that I should like your religion, it should mean that I am tolerant to what ever you want to do.

    But, aren’t we all just scraping though this…and Please don’t get me started on congress.

    me-I know 😦 they are all the same 😦

    Congress/ BJP and we refuse to accept it…
    We don’t have any representation of people. The trouble is the whole thing is run by people/parties, who couldn’t care less.
    yes!they couldnt care less and the sooner we learn to accept this the sooner will we wake up and do something about it!

    Secularism will not mean that I should like your religion, it should mean that I am tolerant to what ever you want to do.
    yes and thats what is missing today…

    Chirag thats the thing…. whY I keep harping on the Congress is the simple reason that unless and until we accept that the Congress the so called secular party is as big a criminal as the rest of them we wont be able to search for way way out..we will never realise the deep deep abyss we are heading for…because somewhere or the other we will be under the delusion that the Congress is better ”<hamaara beda paar lagwa degikind of mentality… a damn revolution of atleast thoughta and ideas is needed and unless the liberals of the country realise that the Congress their last hope aint gonna do a thing it wont happen!simply wont..

    • Chirag Chamoli permalink
      April 13, 2009 6:15 pm

      Isn’t that again a stale mate, I mean if you have to make any change in India you need money and if you have money you are invariably corrupt or couldn’t careless.

      • April 14, 2009 3:01 pm

        You are right Chirag….money is needed and once someone has it they grow corrupt or as you said couldnt care less
        I was thinking more on the lines of a revolution of ideas where youth and intelligentsia of India would come together…something like the ‘no reservations’ movement…then later it could grow from being a fledgling organisation to a more bigger one…very idealistic I know but it can only happen when there’s burning anger something that we saw after Arjun Singh’s stupid proposals and even after 9/11(in a diff context) too…
        thats the kind of anger thats required for a movement of this sort…
        and yet those who should be angry are too busy voting for or canvassing for pseudo secular parties…

        • Chirag Chamoli permalink
          April 14, 2009 4:57 pm

          Guess, we are not angry enough!

  39. April 13, 2009 12:45 am

    Apologies to Kanagu , RGB , Astralwicks and Chirag(dude 😀 ) will be back to reply in detail 😀
    excuse me for a few hours please 🙂

  40. April 13, 2009 9:30 am

    So what options do we have? We have to choose the lesser evil? Congress and BJP are equally evil parties and I hate them for what they have done to this nation.
    1984 is a very painful memory for me. Even though I was a small kid, I have seen enough to last a lifetime. I hate the political system in India for that and I hate them for repeating it again and again in different parts of the country.
    We are a bunch of hypocrites and uneducated animals.

    me-Congress and BJP are equally evil parties and I hate them for what they have done to this nation.
    yes Amit they are and thank you for saying it so cleearly and so many otehrs have done too here…this is the exact point that I try to get into the supposedly deaf ears of the Congress supporters that treat both like evils and then and only then will India be able to search for alternatives…

    we are hypocrites and animals arent we? 😦
    sorry Amit..for bringing back some painful memories…I have some painful memories of neighbours many years later in 89 to be precise neighbours who had still not gotten over the horror…of families that had dissappeared off the face of the earth overnight…

    and yet Amit the irony in the country is that pain is measure according to timelines and according to the identity of the victims..

  41. April 13, 2009 4:12 pm

    Fuckin Awesome post : )
    The clear and straight to soul presentation made by you was good. Three points were really very impressive:
    1. if you stand for nothing you will fall for anything.
    2. It doesn’t matter when/how it happened! What matters is it happened 😦
    3. The sadistic pleasure, believe I feel the same, I relate sadism to growth 😀

    me-thank you Tarun 🙂
    yes absolutely!I mean its so damn irritating to hear that such and such incident happened so many years back and so lets move on!disgusting!
    yeah sadistic pleasure for sure when I see such##### being taken to task….the problem is that all of them are#### who will take them to task?

  42. April 13, 2009 4:33 pm

    how come no new posts?! 😀

    hope everything’s alright at your end 🙂

    *hugs*

    me-awww(((hugs))Pixie 🙂
    everything’s fine..thats so sweet of you to ask 🙂
    !just busy with some packing coz going out of town

  43. April 13, 2009 6:35 pm

    fantabulous post..it was very informative for me as i m not much updated abt political jungle…

    me-thank you so much Rashmi..

  44. April 14, 2009 4:24 am

    Here is an award for you . The Super Blogger award . This award is for those bloggers who blog a lot and get a lot of comments . You fit the bill . For your super-passionate,powerful,indyeah-ish,kickass posts, I confer upon thee, the Super Blogger award . 🙂 I mailed you the image for the award

    me-honoured, delighted and overwhelmed Kislay!thank you so much dear friend 🙂
    check out the new post 😀

  45. April 14, 2009 9:41 am

    Mam, whenu is the nextu postu comingu outtu…. 😛 😛

    me-it is outtu OG :Plol!

  46. April 14, 2009 10:47 am

    Gulp ! Just came back this evening after a hectic weekend and then I find this post with the Alert at the beginning !

    Im bad at politics and never showed any interest before. But lately, listening to whats happening around, I feel politics is just like another form of entertainment in our country. These politicians are no lesser than some of our actors who work only for fame and money. and yeah, in their case, some god forsaken ‘kursi’ ! There should be an end to dynasty politics, this is more like those kings we have had before who passed on the kingdom to the next heir irrespective of how stupid or immature the heir is !

    Sad to state that we are controlled by a bunch of scavangers and just when we think of finding solace in the younger lot of politicians, we get to know their true colors too.

    Btw, this should be the longest post you have ever written, na?

    me-*shakes her head at Vimmuu’s obsession with the length of Indyeah’s posts 😛 😛

    longest post?*looks around to see whom Vimmuu is talking to*
    err no Vimmuu this was one of my very very short ones 😆
    Vimmuu faints

    pssstt ppl Vimmuu has made a habit of fainting here the moment he hears long post 😀

    but serioously speaking yes I agree politics is nothing more than entertainement in today’s India..thats all it has been reduced to… 😦

    There should be an end to dynasty politics, this is more like those kings we have had before who passed on the kingdom to the next heir irrespective of how stupid or immature the heir is !

    so so true Vimmuu…India ad Indians seem to suffer from a slavish mindset…and nothing seems to be changing…

    some of the younger ones are a joke really..thats very true…they scare me with their words which seem to be crap and yet dangerous as hell
    life in India sure looks bleak at times like these 😦

  47. Solilo permalink
    April 14, 2009 6:37 pm

    This is the BEST EVER well-researched post on Indian politics. It is based on facts.

    me-Thank you 🙂 (((hugs)) and more 🙂
    will miss you so much 😦

  48. April 18, 2009 3:16 am

    Please visit Mai’s blog at http://roadtokhalistan.blogspot.com/2007/08/our-stories-from-1984.html
    if you are interested in an eye witness account of what happened in 1984. These are accounts by people who faced the full fury of what transpired at that time. Please be aware that some of it is too graphic and will change your outlook forever.

    me-welcome back 🙂 I missed your posts 🙂
    how was the India trip? 🙂

    I did take a quick peek at that blog that day itself…now ill read it in detail…thanks again for the link

  49. April 25, 2009 9:12 am

    I am one of your Delhi widows. We were Canadian Sikhs visiting family who got caught up in the Delhi Pogrom. Very nasty business. We fought very well when attacked, but with just 11 of us (that number includes three preborn children) we were just too badly outnumbered. All of us except three (including one preborn child) achieved shaheedi that day.

    Being a Canadian, I had a family and a warm, prosperous home and family to go to. I have always remembered my sisters – and a few surviving brothers – and their children.

    We survivors have recorded our stories in our blog, The Road To Khalistan, http://roadtokhalistan.blogspot.com/. Please check it out. You might learn something. You might get some insights. I do not believe you will find it a waste of time.

    Chardi kala!

    me-welcome here ..sorry I could not comment due to time constraints earlier..so only took a quick peek at your blog

    I def will check out the blog..I am curious about one thing though..why the name road to khalistan?Thank you in advance for your answer
    take care and god bless

    • December 18, 2011 11:43 am

      Sorry so long to reply. I didn’t see your qurestion until some dude wrote after me and I was notified, so I came to check it out.

      That’s a very good question and one rarely asked. It started out as just the telling of what happened to us in the Delhi pogrom, which is what radicalised me personally. Before, I had thought that Khalistan was a pipedream of a bunch of Khalsa with too much testosterone and too much time on their hands. As I stumbled over those bodies in Delhi, I realised why Khalistani was necessary and so I became a Khalistani. That was my road to Khalistan and how the blog got its name.

      It grew, though, and took on a different meaning. I found myself trying to point the way to our homeland becoming a reality and so the blog itself might become a road for others to follow.

      I’m very happy that they’re finally onto amitabh bachhan.

  50. Anonymous permalink
    June 25, 2011 12:30 am

    hi
    a vry well documented post,but there are few facts which are to be recognised here

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